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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook  Perhaps you are. Sean at Tanks HQ had already said the combination did work, but now we're finding out it doesn't. The distinction between rolling an attack pool that includes zero dice and not getting to the point of rolling dice at all being the pivotal element that separates "attacking" from just "shooting" is not mentioned in the rulebook at all, and cards seem to use these terms pretty loosely. As such, I didn't really have a place to start making the logical leap that it wouldn't work to begin with. Maybe I am just having a mental disconnect. Or maybe it's because I have not experienced what you are talking about that I am misunderstanding your point. I do not see how the combination does not work. I just lobbed smoke at my opponents unit. I now have to discard this card. It was successful; therefore Clever Loader cannot save the card. (Would you prefer that the card said roll one die and on a 4,5, or 6 the smoke launch was successful? That way if it was not then your Clever Loader could save the card.) I agree that at times the wording is a little loose; but, it is supposed to be just a simple fun game and the intent of the rules and cards is typically pretty clear. (Unless one is constantly scrutinizing to find loopholes.) But this is just my opinion.
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So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't???
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Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't??? Well, what HQ says is what matters...and the last thing from Sean indicates that the clever loader does not save your smoke card. So you use it and then discard it.
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 1 user thanked Zerstorer for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Perhaps you are. Sean at Tanks HQ had already said the combination did work, but now we're finding out it doesn't. The distinction between rolling an attack pool that includes zero dice and not getting to the point of rolling dice at all being the pivotal element that separates "attacking" from just "shooting" is not mentioned in the rulebook at all, and cards seem to use these terms pretty loosely. As such, I didn't really have a place to start making the logical leap that it wouldn't work to begin with. I don't think every game mechanic or rule will necessarily be logical or realistic. It is a game, and a simple one at that. Once we have a ruling on a card from HQ, that should be good enough. My gaming group just plays this game and has a great time. We have very little time for tedious rules parsing. In a cut throat tournament gaming community I suppose such issues can be pivotal as each player tries to bend and shape the rules to their will, but I hope this game doesn't go that direction. X-Wing does a good job of keeping their tournament rules tight, but even that game constantly produces FAQ's and reinterprets or simply changes/nerfs cards to restore play balance.
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Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't??? Well, what HQ says is what matters...and the last thing from Sean indicates that the clever loader does not save your smoke card. So you use it and then discard it. Sean and Andrew are in disagreement according to this thread. Sean said Clever does save the smoke, but Andrew says it does not.
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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't??? Well, what HQ says is what matters...and the last thing from Sean indicates that the clever loader does not save your smoke card. So you use it and then discard it. Sean and Andrew are in disagreement according to this thread. Sean said Clever does save the smoke, but Andrew says it does not. Did Sean actually say that? I thought his response was a little ambiguous. "I'm afraid I can't do that commander?" - Do what; keep the card or discard it? "Smoke em if you got em?" - Sure; but do I still got em? Or does it mean use it while you can?
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Originally Posted by: Tally - Ho Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't??? Well, what HQ says is what matters...and the last thing from Sean indicates that the clever loader does not save your smoke card. So you use it and then discard it. Sean and Andrew are in disagreement according to this thread. Sean said Clever does save the smoke, but Andrew says it does not. Did Sean actually say that? I thought his response was a little ambiguous. "I'm afraid I can't do that commander?" - Do what; keep the card or discard it? "Smoke em if you got em?" - Sure; but do I still got em? Or does it mean use it while you can? Since the post was responding to "Tell me it doesn't combo," I felt it was pretty explicit in its permission.
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Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Perhaps you are. Sean at Tanks HQ had already said the combination did work, but now we're finding out it doesn't. The distinction between rolling an attack pool that includes zero dice and not getting to the point of rolling dice at all being the pivotal element that separates "attacking" from just "shooting" is not mentioned in the rulebook at all, and cards seem to use these terms pretty loosely. As such, I didn't really have a place to start making the logical leap that it wouldn't work to begin with. I don't think every game mechanic or rule will necessarily be logical or realistic. It is a game, and a simple one at that. Once we have a ruling on a card from HQ, that should be good enough. My gaming group just plays this game and has a great time. We have very little time for tedious rules parsing. In a cut throat tournament gaming community I suppose such issues can be pivotal as each player tries to bend and shape the rules to their will, but I hope this game doesn't go that direction. X-Wing does a good job of keeping their tournament rules tight, but even that game constantly produces FAQ's and reinterprets or simply changes/nerfs cards to restore play balance. I have to agree. I also think that IF this ever becomes a serious tournament game then there will probably need to be some rules that will need to be looked at again. Having said that; it might be worth pointing out that from the beginning the designers stated that at least for now there are no plans for serious tournament play. To me this means that if a local club puts on a tournament of their own it really is up to the organizer / referee how certain rules are implemented at this time. I have to deal with enough rules lawyering type behavior in my real job. When I break out my tanks I just want to blow stuff up.
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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Originally Posted by: Tally - Ho Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf So... where the hell are we with this? It works or it doesn't??? Well, what HQ says is what matters...and the last thing from Sean indicates that the clever loader does not save your smoke card. So you use it and then discard it. Sean and Andrew are in disagreement according to this thread. Sean said Clever does save the smoke, but Andrew says it does not. Did Sean actually say that? I thought his response was a little ambiguous. "I'm afraid I can't do that commander?" - Do what; keep the card or discard it? "Smoke em if you got em?" - Sure; but do I still got em? Or does it mean use it while you can? Since the post was responding to "Tell me it doesn't combo," I felt it was pretty explicit in its permission. Well we will have to agree to disagree. Frankly if it had really mattered to me I would have asked for clarification at the time; but, I never thought it was an issue.
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Since then we've talked about this and other rules issues in the studio.
Go with Andrew's ruling.
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