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morgis  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2017 9:32:39 PM(UTC)
morgis

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Hello,
because a few inaccuracies and mistakes in this manual I would like to request the creation of errata.
I would like to do in this post a list of all questions about the game. This will allow them to collect them and then develop the appropriate form so that all the answers were in one place. Let's give a week or two to do this and then we will develop a fansite errata.
Some questions already appear on the forum so we can ask questions and paste a link to the correct thread. Same questions also do not be afraid to write.
I'll start first. A few things that occurred to me while reading the instructions and reviewing threads.

1. Shooting from behind the to tank
2. How many decks critical damage to the game? One for all or everyone has their own?
3.Describing shooting from the front. You can not see the edges of the tank, but it is not a cover.
4. How many cards of improvements for the tank?
5. Describing better shooting in the woods who and who has cover.
thanks 1 user thanked morgis for this useful post.
Uthak on 4/20/2017(UTC)
LordOfKhemri  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:58:50 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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I think all these are covered in the forum posts, mostly under Rules Discussion.

I agree that there should be a section for official HQ rulings and clarifications to help newer players (and more experienced) who might not know that their points have already been discussed.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Waster  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:47:32 AM(UTC)
Waster

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Yeah, I've been saying for a long time that the site needs some kind of FAQ page or doc. I even considered compiling all of the official rules clarifications, similar to my downloads collection post, but I just don't have the time at the moment. But yeah, seconded. Thirded. W/e.
Pioneer  
#4 Posted : Friday, March 24, 2017 9:02:07 PM(UTC)
Pioneer

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I too would like to request the creation of an errata/FAQ page or doc. This is a must have in my book. The creation of this should have started on D-day, when it was released and should have been well started before the release of any expansions. I know I'm a NOOB but I have no idea what is right or wrong or in error or changed or fixed...... etc....
thanks 1 user thanked Pioneer for this useful post.
Waster on 3/25/2017(UTC)
Bruce  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:38:34 AM(UTC)
Bruce

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I agree w pioneer. Just get on w it please.
Sohlon  
#6 Posted : Saturday, April 8, 2017 7:49:00 PM(UTC)
Sohlon

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Originally Posted by: morgis Go to Quoted Post
Hello,
because a few inaccuracies and mistakes in this manual I would like to request the creation of errata.
I would like to do in this post a list of all questions about the game. This will allow them to collect them and then develop the appropriate form so that all the answers were in one place. Let's give a week or two to do this and then we will develop a fansite errata.
Some questions already appear on the forum so we can ask questions and paste a link to the correct thread. Same questions also do not be afraid to write.
I'll start first. A few things that occurred to me while reading the instructions and reviewing threads.

1. Shooting from behind the to tank
2. How many decks critical damage to the game? One for all or everyone has their own?
3.Describing shooting from the front. You can not see the edges of the tank, but it is not a cover.
4. How many cards of improvements for the tank?
5. Describing better shooting in the woods who and who has cover.


With the greatest respect guys there really is no need for an FAQ or errata.

1) no idea what this question is...
2) 1 deck.. you get one in the starter set which contains two forces so why would you ever need another?
3) if you read the rules carefully this is answered, it's not that you have to have two corners unseen, it's that you have to have two corners obscured by tanks or terrain.
4) covered under the cards page, 1 of each sort and a limit on total crew count.
5) if from the turret the tank draws Los through terrain then cover is given.
LordOfKhemri  
#7 Posted : Saturday, April 8, 2017 8:19:46 PM(UTC)
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5)

What about when the target tank is outside a wood and the shooter is totally inside the wood?

The phrase "ignore terrain directly under the shooter tank" means target is NOT in cover even though the line of sight passes through this terrain.

However, the diagram under that phrase in the rulebook contradicts this by saying that the wood obscures LOS thus contributing to the count of corners needed for cover.

Or have I missed something back in the midst of time when this was being discussed?
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Necrogoat  
#8 Posted : Saturday, April 8, 2017 10:56:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sohlon Go to Quoted Post

2) 1 deck.. you get one in the starter set which contains two forces so why would you ever need another?



Sry but this answer is stupid. For example: Tanks is very similar to X-Wing. There every player MUST HAVE his own dmg-deck. But in the starter are also 2 armies but 1 deck.

And it's not very clear in the rules you need 1 per player or 1 for both

LordOfKhemri  
#9 Posted : Saturday, April 8, 2017 11:40:49 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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As was mentioned many month ago, using one deck and reshuffling means that there can be no suspicion of someone stacking their own deck with an extra lucky hit or a bailed out.

We have never used a deck each.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Necrogoat  
#10 Posted : Saturday, April 8, 2017 11:49:12 PM(UTC)
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We always do because each player has to have his own stuff
Waster  
#11 Posted : Sunday, April 9, 2017 1:58:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
As was mentioned many month ago, using one deck and reshuffling means that there can be no suspicion of someone stacking their own deck with an extra lucky hit or a bailed out.

We have never used a deck each.


Khemri is correct in that the official stance is that players share a deck, but me and Rook have always used a deck each. For one thing, we trust one another to not purposefully optimize the deck, and for another it's harder to meta-game (i.e. card-counting bailed-out effects etc.)

In any case it's a good idea for each player to OWN a crit deck, and I'd leave it to the organizer to decide how they want to run it.
Sohlon  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 11, 2017 7:20:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Necrogoat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Sohlon Go to Quoted Post

2) 1 deck.. you get one in the starter set which contains two forces so why would you ever need another?



Sry but this answer is stupid. For example: Tanks is very similar to X-Wing. There every player MUST HAVE his own dmg-deck. But in the starter are also 2 armies but 1 deck.

And it's not very clear in the rules you need 1 per player or 1 for both



Maybe i didn't explain clearly enough. As no rule says you need one each then you don't. If x wing says you need one each that's absolutely wonderful for those guys but this isn't x wing and there is no such rule. Most people also bring their own dice but again there is no requirement., Should we get an FAQ on that too? The point is that unless the rules expressly say you need a deck per person then you don't. And why would you need two decks? The difference is so marginal it's not an issue.

An FAQ is only relevant if there is an issue effecting game play. Using one or two decks​ has no difference statistically in favouring one player or the other. You don't need it to be FAQ ed as it A) doesn't effect how the game plays and B) noone is ever going to make an issue of it. The cover questions have more relevance as they relate to potential issues but this is just silly

Edited by user Tuesday, April 11, 2017 10:00:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

CmdrRook  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:24:08 AM(UTC)
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The rules also don't say you can't reroll a die more than once, but when an x-wing player got curious and asked, the official response was that you can not under any circumstance reroll a reroll. Same as x wing, and a very important distinction that reduces Brits effectiveness substantially, in my opinion.

We need an FAQ. We need an errata. The only reason we don't is gf9 was pushing Tanks as a gateway drug for flames of war, and had no plans to support it beyond releasing FoW models in single blisters. The game stands on its own and has an independent fan base now, and it ought to get the support it deserves.
Chargers  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:44:21 AM(UTC)
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I'm an X-Wing player and the similarities of the games is part of what drew me in. That and it's tanks. :>)

But the games aren't exactly alike. X-Wing needs a deck for each player because of how hits are tracked on each ship. Tanks doesn't need more than one per game (yes, even multi-player ... we've done it) because very few cards aren't shuffled back in at the end of each turn.

1000cc of testosterone
Sohlon  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:00:26 AM(UTC)
Sohlon

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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Go to Quoted Post
The rules also don't say you can't reroll a die more than once, but when an x-wing player got curious and asked, the official response was that you can not under any circumstance reroll a reroll. Same as x wing, and a very important distinction that reduces Brits effectiveness substantially, in my opinion.

We need an FAQ. We need an errata. The only reason we don't is gf9 was pushing Tanks as a gateway drug for flames of war, and had no plans to support it beyond releasing FoW models in single blisters. The game stands on its own and has an independent fan base now, and it ought to get the support it deserves.


I think it's a good idea to remember that an FAQ or errata isn't there for 100% clarity, they don't explain how to roll dice or even what a dice is, there is no need. They are their to provide reasonable clarity for ambiguous rules which are causing a problems in a large number of games. Im not convinced that how many decks to use or if you should reroll a reroll are issues that an average player is struggling to resolve without outside guidance.
CmdrRook  
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:12:38 AM(UTC)
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Not to presume you have taken an unsuccessful dig at my intelligence, but I feel you are missing the point, here. An FAQ is a rules document that answers the most frequently asked questions in plain terms. Give a quick search of the rules forum for the word "cover," or "movement," and you might consider those topics frequently questioned. That's not even counting the myriad of Facebook discussion that has no overlap with the forum, or folks who don't utilize the internet to settle their rules disputes. Collecting and addressing the most popular questions about those topics is an important task and generally starts in play-testing so a properly written rulebook can preemptively answer a new players questions.

An errata is necessary to correct mistakes and homogenize language, from the official rules, such as; "page X should include the passage 'you may not reroll a die more than once,' our bad" or, "the 'normal move' on Dr Franz Bake's commander card is a typical extra move, sorry for the confusion." Unless they meant that the extra move is made as if it were moving during the proper phase, in which case it should be clarified as such. An errata does not need to be a long document, and in truth, I think a Tanks errata would be quite short, but no less important.

And in case you think I'd forgotten: yes, a proper rule book does inform you of which dice you'll be using, for what purpose, and how. None of us were born with wargaming in our brains, and some folks learn the very basics from a curious afternoon with a book, rather than a veteran gamer.
thanks 1 user thanked CmdrRook for this useful post.
Uthak on 4/20/2017(UTC)
Screamin' Eagle  
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 13, 2017 3:31:54 PM(UTC)
Screamin' Eagle

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Have to agree that a composite FAQ posted on the game website, and probably copied as a file in Boardgame Geek, is the best way to go. There are too many "unofficial" answers that only confuse the process, and not everyone is a Facebooker. The game manufacturer should view this as a responsibility to their customers, as well as an investment in maintaining the game's popularity. If folks get confused and can't find answers, they walk away from the game......and future sales are lost. This is a fun, quick game that has a lot of similarities to the Wings of War/Wings of Glory series; if they do it right, they can have the same longevity of that game, which is over ten years and lots of sales.
Sohlon  
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 13, 2017 7:27:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Go to Quoted Post
Not to presume you have taken an unsuccessful dig at my intelligence, but I feel you are missing the point, here. An FAQ is a rules document that answers the most frequently asked questions in plain terms. Give a quick search of the rules forum for the word "cover," or "movement," and you might consider those topics frequently questioned. That's not even counting the myriad of Facebook discussion that has no overlap with the forum, or folks who don't utilize the internet to settle their rules disputes. Collecting and addressing the most popular questions about those topics is an important task and generally starts in play-testing so a properly written rulebook can preemptively answer a new players questions.

An errata is necessary to correct mistakes and homogenize language, from the official rules, such as; "page X should include the passage 'you may not reroll a die more than once,' our bad" or, "the 'normal move' on Dr Franz Bake's commander card is a typical extra move, sorry for the confusion." Unless they meant that the extra move is made as if it were moving during the proper phase, in which case it should be clarified as such. An errata does not need to be a long document, and in truth, I think a Tanks errata would be quite short, but no less important.

And in case you think I'd forgotten: yes, a proper rule book does inform you of which dice you'll be using, for what purpose, and how. None of us were born with wargaming in our brains, and some folks learn the very basics from a curious afternoon with a book, rather than a veteran gamer.



I'm very sorry if you were offended by my post that was not it's intention. And thank you very much for explaining what an FAQ is but i think the core issue is that until we can find some actual unanswered issues which can't be solved by reading the rules or applying common sense then there isn't really going to be anything to out in the FAQ or errata. To clarify if there are issues which can't be answered i am all for an FAQ, hell, i haven't seen all the upgrades so im sure something might be out there but so far all i can see is an argument for FAQs without any content.
LordOfKhemri  
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 13, 2017 9:24:25 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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Your key phrase there is "common sense".

As we know this is the least used of our senses, especially if there is ambiguity in a rule or statement that can give different interpretations according to your own viewpoint.
For these cases an FAQ and official clarification is a required section.

As an example, this one particularly riles me.

Radio coordinator passes on initiative, cool stuff when your ISU152 shoots at I10 :)

If the tank is bailed out "common sense" would suggest that the radio guy has jumped out very quickly rather than burn to death. Therefore "common sense" would say that he doesnt have his radio and so cannot coordinate fire.
However there is no mention of the crew being required to still be in the tank to do the radio thing.
So now the radio guy can still pass on the ABANDONED tank's init along with modifiers from the crew cowering in a ditch.

To me that is utter nonsense but some people would argue the opposite.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
thanks 1 user thanked LordOfKhemri for this useful post.
Waster on 4/14/2017(UTC)
Screamin' Eagle  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 14, 2017 9:07:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
Your key phrase there is "common sense"


As Benjamin Franklin once said "Common sense is not so common" :-)
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