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Uthak  
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:52:54 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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Originally Posted by: morgis Go to Quoted Post

1. Shooting from behind the to tank
2. How many decks critical damage to the game? One for all or everyone has their own?
3.Describing shooting from the front. You can not see the edges of the tank, but it is not a cover.
4. How many cards of improvements for the tank?
5. Describing better shooting in the woods who and who has cover.


I have no idea why people are so vehemently arguing to NOT have/include a FAQ/err... Like why not? Obviously there are a bunch of question that get asked, which is totally ok and not the invite to talk down to new/inexperienced players. Put simply some people/even clubs need simple, official statements clarifying what is meant with certain rule-text - and what is not.

To the afford mentioned 5 questions:

1.) I believe you are asking what happens if your tank were to shoot from the back rather the side?! Unfortunately (because I miss official rules for this as well) there is no difference in the rules for shooting from the side (rules page 13) or the back. This not only makes "Heavy" tanks even better (since their ruling aims at side-shots: but without shots from behind they count as all-around-armored), but is also unrealistic and leads players to make different decisions when being circled: what's the point of preventing an enemy tank from getting behind you, once he is next to you?

2.) intuitively I would say one for two players. However if you consider multiplayer matches with lets say 8 people, or just big points of 500 (example) per side, you will see matches with way more tanks than 3-6 per match. In such situation it could easily arise that card counting - even unintentional becomes common practice AND worse: you may run out of cards if 50 (again: example) tanks draw from the same stack. Thanks for asking this question, because I never even thought of it. From here on I will be using my own deck for myself to keep it as random as possible.

3.) Rulebook page 12. Look at the lower image and read the text in the image very carefully. When you can draw your Line of Sight (LOS) to 3 corners WITHOUT passing through any other object/terrain the target has NO cover. however if two corners lie behind/in some sort of cover, even with the whole front of the tank sticking out of said cover, the tank counts as in cover. Just dipping your far corner in a forest does not grant you cover. Two corners would. (not sure if that's your question though)

4.) as someone mentioned before, this is clearly stated on page 15. One of each category and only as much crew as your tank allows. However I have a question about this too: Are tank doctrine also considered a piece of equipment and therefor limited to one per tank? This is how I've been writing lists, but want to make sure, because I haven't read any specific doctrine rules.

5.) Something I've seen played wrong in online reviews/lets-play's: If your tank is in a forest/in woods, but not sticking his gun (turret-center/gun-mount) OUT of said woods, an enemy tank, that's out in the clear (has no cover on its own) still gets cover from the little piece of your own cover/forest your bullet would theoretically pass through. I don't necessarily like this particular ruling, since I would think a hidden tank in a forest would locate itself to have but not GIVE cover for its enemies, but ok - I didn't write this. This becomes clear if you look at the image on page 12 (bottom). The Pershing has no free LOS on the Panzer IV because there is a tiny bit of his own forest "obscuring"/in the way to the left front end of the Panzer IV. (They should've highlighted Terrain in the images imo.)
This is specifically stated in the rule-text for "COVER" and the underlying picture on page 12: "Ignore terrain directly underneath the shooting tank (not the whole terrain piece) when determining if the target is in Cover."
____________________

I would also like to add a couple of questions I couldn't find answer to on the forums (so far):

6.) How does Dr. Franz Bake's special movement rule work? Further; how does it work if he is in a "Fast" Tank or a Tank with "Supercharger"? His ruletext says he may make a "normal move", does that mean he can make all 2/3 moves as for a normal movement-phase? Is ment he may make a one-arrow movement before game start? May he make his full 2 moves and even discard his supercharger to use its speed-buff?

7.) I read here that there was an official statement that you may not re-roll re-rolls, but I couldn't find that. Could anyone please post a link/reference?

8.1.) What happens if you score say 3 uncanceled critical hits on an enemy, draw 3 critical damage cards, and they all so happen to be "Bailed Out"? Going by the rule book this would actually mean they are legit (they are "repairable" and thus should be stacked on the tank), that would mean the crew has bailed out 3 times now, and thus it would take 3 command-phases to repair them again - 1 by 1 - is this correct?! (I know this is unlikely, but what if?)

8.2.) What happens if you score say 3 uncanceled critical hits on an enemy, draw 3 critical damage cards, and they all so happen to be "Damaged Optics"? Again: Do they stack? from the rules I would think they do, so if applied 3 times, the target tank would effectively lose 6 attack, right? (until fixed that is)

9.) Can a tank that is equipped with "-1 initiative Loses the Fast-keyword" (many of the common armor-equipment's) use a Supercharger to gain "Fast" for one round? Put to an extreme: A "Fast" vehicle gets Add-On Armor and loses "Fast", could it cancel that effect for one turn with a Supercharger?

10.) Tungsten Shot. Can I use attack die re-rolls (Knispel, Precise Loader, stationary vehicle, etc.) to re-roll missed shots on a Tungsten Shot?

Thanks for respectfull replies and good hunting
CmdrRook  
#22 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 12:54:34 AM(UTC)
CmdrRook

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6. Nobody has any idea what the phrasing on Dr Bake's card actually means. Our group treats it like an extra move a-la Baby Richards, or Zinovy Kolovonov.

7. Here.

8. Each card applies its effect. If it is a cumulative effect, such as a -1 initiative and attack, you suffer the combined effects. If they are replacement effects, such as "this tank only moves once/ this tank has 0 initiative," it is simply that. In either case, each card must be repaired or discarded separately, with the exception of Damaged Optics. Attacking will discard all instances of that critical card.

Furthermore, resolve the effect of each critical you receive before drawing a new one; drawing two ammo explosions will only trigger the extra damage once. Verified.

9. No.* "This tank loses Fast" is a continuous replacement effect, so after you discard Supercharger to give it Fast, the armor immediately removes it again.

10. Yes. It's referring to "uncanceled" 1s.
thanks 1 user thanked CmdrRook for this useful post.
Uthak on 4/21/2017(UTC)
LordOfKhemri  
#23 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 2:09:10 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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CmdrRook.
Am not doubting you but where does it say that if i draw 2 critical cards that are both ammo explosion only one of them counts towards the 3 damage?

That would have saved an ISU a while back that drew consecutive ammo cards.

Cheers

2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
CmdrRook  
#24 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 3:11:14 AM(UTC)
CmdrRook

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Ammo explosion is base 3 damage, but does more for each ammo card you have, then discard those ammo cards. Each does three, but only one does the extra damage.
LordOfKhemri  
#25 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 3:40:13 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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Oh yes i knew that, i thought you had found something i had missed, which has been known :)
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Uthak  
#26 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 7:06:08 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Go to Quoted Post
6. Nobody has any idea what the phrasing on Dr Bake's card actually means. Our group treats it like an extra move a-la Baby Richards, or Zinovy Kolovonov.

7. Here.

8. Each card applies its effect. If it is a cumulative effect, such as a -1 initiative and attack, you suffer the combined effects. If they are replacement effects, such as "this tank only moves once/ this tank has 0 initiative," it is simply that. In either case, each card must be repaired or discarded separately, with the exception of Damaged Optics. Attacking will discard all instances of that critical card.

Furthermore, resolve the effect of each critical you receive before drawing a new one; drawing two ammo explosions will only trigger the extra damage once. Verified.

9. No.* "This tank loses Fast" is a continuous replacement effect, so after you discard Supercharger to give it Fast, the armor immediately removes it again.

10. Yes. It's referring to "uncanceled" 1s.


Thank you for the reference and a couple of clarifications.

8.) thank you for clarifying, i haven't read some of the cards carefully enough I saw. However about the Damaged Optics issue: lets say your StuG draws that card three times, effectively subtracting more attacks than it even has from you. Can you still fire if you have 0 attacks? On a different note I find this card to be poorly written, why would it AT ALL discard when you shoot? does shooting magically make you see again/repair damaged devices? Something like "you may open the hatches to get a visual again - can chose to get -1 armor and regain 2 attacks while this card is active" would make sense...

What you say about the ammo is good to know, I woulda thought they were to all trigger at once, since technically the shot is just a single round penetrating and its damage would be all instant. the more you know.

9. thanks for reference. also this clarifies that you may supercharge after losing the heavy gear that is weighing you down.

10. thx again.

I feel like compiling what I have read here, your references and all that into a starter FAQ. Or maybe I could motivate you CmdrRook to compile such a document with any faq on this forum, as you did for me just now?! maybe work together for me to compile questions (as a beginner myself, and for you to answer them with official references/rule-quote? obviously only if you want haha
CmdrRook  
#27 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 9:28:54 AM(UTC)
CmdrRook

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8. Since the cards all specifically mention your next attack, they all clear as a result of you firing. Yes, you may assemble and roll 0 dice against a valid target, and they may assemble and roll their defense. If you couldn't, you would not be able to use crew and ammo to potentially raise your attack above 0. Think of the critical being a busted lense or misaligned reticule that your crew automatically adjusts or replaces when they notice their shot go wild.

At a time when I'm not posting via mobile, I'd be happy to collaborate on your project. I'd caution you to only include issues that have been officially resolved and addressed, as I've learned that a single post buried pages deep can completely alter your understanding of a rule.

Edited by user Friday, April 21, 2017 9:31:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spellings

Uthak  
#28 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 2:08:30 PM(UTC)
Uthak

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I tend to disagree with your assessment on the Damaged Optics issue, Rook. I don't think you can count an attack of 0 dice as an attack and thus discard damaged Optics. In that situation you have literally nothing to throw at your enemy (maybe not only your sights are blocked, but also your hatch got jammed AND the explosion caused fog and dirt to make vision entirely impossible = 3x stack of dmg optics).
However using upgrades to gain back an Attack value should be possible. For example moving into close range with a bloodthirsty driver and activate a tungsten shot would get you back up from 0 to 2 and enable to actually attack. In my theory, that is haha.

I actually already made an errata/faq all day, quoting many people etc. (but only made definite statements on rules that are 100% cleare up = HQ verified). ---> I'm investing WAY to much time in this game right now.
And yes you are 100% right on hidden posts, have been screening the forum on rules and actually found a HQ post on the Dr. Franz Bake issue which got resolved months ago. I have that in the FAQ. I ask anyone who cares to double check the FAQ and make comments or post insights.

Edited by user Monday, April 24, 2017 3:58:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: add link

CmdrRook  
#29 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2017 3:01:05 PM(UTC)
CmdrRook

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Damaged Optics doesn't prevent you from firing, it makes you inaccurate. Shooting with a 0 pool is being so off the mark you couldn't possibly hit. A tank crew, upon seeing that happen, works to immediately correct the issue. Those levels of detail are irrelevant because at the end of the day, Tanks is the gamiest of games, and not a simulation. The game logic is that you took so many penalties that you were forced to throw away an entire turn's attack. If there is no limiting clause in the card effects, then each of them effect you, and vice versa. You could still only repair one at a time, but the discard effect is not a repair. The only way to cheat it out is with Barkmann, and that's a very unlikely corner case.
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