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Originally Posted by: hithero Originally Posted by: KampfgruppeAdler well... compared to the Panther...it is too expensive at 40 pts....for 8 more points...I loose 2 initiative , gain 1 damage and "Heavy"...that just does not sound right...
the Russians going from a T34/85 to a IS85...for 8 points you loose 1 initiative and "Fast"...gain +1 attack and +3 damage and "Heavy"...
going from SU85 to SU100...for 8 pts. you loose fast...gain +2 initiative , +1 attack , +2 armor and +2 damage...
it does not compute to me... Yeah, should be 36/37pts. Have you looked at the ‘Cracking the Code’ thread on the Tank Forces part of the forum? It’s quite instructive in respect to your comments. This is the salient section. Quote:Gentlemen, In here and in facebook group there are numerous attemps to houserule tanks that have FoW (and others) models, but lack the official cards. I've also seen someone's post about trying to figure out the points system, but failing. So I decided to have a crack at it myself. Below are the results: All points modifications take a basic tank of each force as a starting point (M4 in US, Panzer IV in Germany, etc). 1 Initiative - 1 Point (though in case of dropping Ini, no points seem to be deducted from final cost); 1 Attack - 5 Points; 1 Defence - 7 Points; 1 Damage - 1 Point;
Fast - 5 Points; Big Gun - 5 Points (not enough proof); Heavy - 8 Points (again, not sure); Assault Gun - deduct 2 points (unclear);
How did I get these numbers? Starting with 'murricah (F**k Yeah!!!).
M4 as basic with stats: 6 4 1 6 20 Pts.
Step up is M4 (76): 6 5 1 6 25 Pts.
Hence 1 Attack costs 5 pts. And so it goes. Admittedly system does not fully work (usually by an odd point) in some cases (especially with Soviets), but it's pretty close. So on this basis a Tiger I E with I5, S5, A2, D7 Blitzkrieg, Heavy would be worth 20 +5(S), +7(A), +1(D), +8(H) = 41pts as would be the I6, S5, A2, D7 Blitzkrieg, Heavy variant. The intangible is, of course, how much for Blitzkrieg and Heavy (+8 for the latter seems quite a lot) but it does suggest that ~40 points is about right and your suggestion of 36/37 points maybe be marginally too cheap. Personally, I would suggest somewhere about 38 points looks about right to me. It also, as you suggest, exposes some of the variations in the system and highlights the degree to which the Russian vehicles are very good value (for example the Comet at 29 points and the T-34/85 at 25 points are almost identical in capabilities but once you factor in the national characteristic, special ammo, and hero cards the Russian vehicle is much better value). And with Gung Ho and their ratings generally, I think the US vehicles are overpowered but at least they are not as cheap as the Russians. Finally one advantage the Tiger I E will provide – and justifying the relatively high cost – is that it will give the Germans a good antidote to lists with fast, high initiative tanks to which the Jagdpanther and the Panther are relatively vulnerable. By having a heavy tank (and not an assault gun) the Germans will cease to be as vulnerable to being flanked at close range as they currently are now. Tom
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