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Zerstorer  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 8:39:32 AM(UTC)
Zerstorer

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Used this new card last night in an early war Russian campaign scenario I created. We gave the card to a sdkfz 222 armored car. It was able to spot for a Panzer IV short and a Stug IIIB (only one per turn though). At the end of a hard fought battle, the KV-2 was holding an objective. The armored car closed for a point blank flank shot (flank not mattering on a heavy tank though), scoring a point of damage. The KV-2 was a couple of hit points away from its demise. The Stug IIIB shot, using the line of sight provided by the armored car.

The question is, if an artillery observer's line of sight is point blank and flank, does that mean the artillery tank also is treated as being at point blank and flank? Instincts say no...but the literal reading of the card says yes! We went with yes, and the KV-2 was destroyed....although its final fury blew the courageous armored car crew to smithereens.

PS. Early war Russian campaign games have been awesome for our group. German initiative and blitzkrieg is just barely enough to pull out wins against the Russians. For example, in our game last night a T-34 was holding an objective with cover. Massed German fire finally got through a crit that bailed out the T-34. Later, the KV-2 had its shooting crippled by a crit that damaged its optics. The fast speed of the T-34 and BT tanks are tough to deal with though!
Kelvin  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 9:46:08 AM(UTC)
Kelvin

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Ah another ambiguous rule, love these.

I would say based on reality thinking no, as the artillery vehicle is a distance away, hence artillery.

That being said, what if artillery vehicle was also very close in?

Best advice, check rulebook, go with gut, dice off if you cant agree and whoever wins dice offs interpretation is law after that. Saves wasting time and allows for more gaming.
Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of...
Sean at TANKS HQ  
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 6, 2017 10:26:13 AM(UTC)
Sean at TANKS HQ

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Here are the relevant rules:

Close Range
Subtract one Defence die if the shooting tank is within one Measuring Arrow (including the head) of the target tank.

Side Shot
Subtract one Defence die if any part of the shooting tank’s hull (excluding protruding gun barrels) is behind the front of the target tank.


Since the tank with the Artillery keyword is still the 'shooting tank' it wouldn't get a close range or side shot bonus unless it was eligible for it themselves.
thanks 1 user thanked Sean at TANKS HQ for this useful post.
Uthak on 7/6/2017(UTC)
Zerstorer  
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 6, 2017 2:01:31 PM(UTC)
Zerstorer

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Originally Posted by: Sean at TANKS HQ Go to Quoted Post
Here are the relevant rules:

Close Range
Subtract one Defence die if the shooting tank is within one Measuring Arrow (including the head) of the target tank.

Side Shot
Subtract one Defence die if any part of the shooting tank’s hull (excluding protruding gun barrels) is behind the front of the target tank.


Since the tank with the Artillery keyword is still the 'shooting tank' it wouldn't get a close range or side shot bonus unless it was eligible for it themselves.


Thanks, makes sense to me. So, about the only thing the observer would negate in our situation would be cover for the KV-2....since the armored car had a clear LOS to the KV, while the Stug was behind a building, correct?

I tell you...pushing through a hit on a tank with armor 2 using firepower 3 early war guns is really tough! Even with the KV-2 being limited to speed 1, it typically was getting 4 to 6 defensive dice when it had cover and the Germans were not risking being stationary that often. I think the Germans would need to add a tank crewman that adds +1 attack dice to improve their odds. We swarmed that KV-2 and based on the ruling here on the artillery observer, that KV would have survived the 6 turns and won the game, especially since a heavy tank should not have to worry about a flank shot....although i am not sure if the KV-2 should get a heavy tank rating, whereas I think a KV-1 would definitely be a heavy tank in this game.

Edited by user Thursday, July 6, 2017 2:12:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sean at TANKS HQ  
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 6, 2017 4:54:52 PM(UTC)
Sean at TANKS HQ

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From the section on Cover:
A target is in Cover if you cannot draw a line from the tank’s turret (or the point the gun crosses the hull of an Assault Gun) to at least three corners of the target tank without passing through any other tank or any terrain that Blocks Line of Sight or gives Cover.


Because the Artillery Observer card changes where the line of sight is drawn from, yeah, no cover :D
james101  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2017 8:10:52 PM(UTC)
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what the heck is an artillery observer card
Kelvin  
#7 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2017 8:42:44 PM(UTC)
Kelvin

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It came with one of new expansions. Basically think of a close up spotter calling Arty from a further away tank. Ive not used it yet so cant comment on its effectiveness.
Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of...
james101  
#8 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2017 11:58:16 PM(UTC)
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ahh. the new expansions...I'll never see it then
Kelvin  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 8, 2017 1:57:22 AM(UTC)
Kelvin

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They are in shops in the lichfield area if ebay isnt an option.

Ask yourself the question I did recently though. Do I need them right now? I nearly bought a huge set of the Hobbit models other day. In the end I didnt because I thought over half my LOTR stuff is either unpainted or unassembled (and I paint a lot to be fair). Ive had the new tanks for about week and a half, only put together Honey so far as still working on last years stuff.

What Im saying is, if you got plenty to do, buying more can be detrimental to your motivation. I can tell you now, desert tanks of mine wont see a brush for months at moment cause Im behind as is.

However, if you arnet backed up or dont care for painting, ignore me as not relevant then.

Good luck whatever the case mate.
Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of...
james101  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 8, 2017 8:51:23 PM(UTC)
james101

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I live in a room. No TV. Nowhere to game regular. No paints. Bugger all income due to mental health.

Trust me I have time
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