Hmmm... I did up the Jdpz IV L/70 card, but there was an earlier version. The Jdpz IV L/48. This used a similar gun to the Stug IV and the Pzkw IV. So, the stats could be:

3/4/2/5, Assault Gun, Blitzkrieg, but at what points cost? 20pts?

Just my twopence... Raise Ini to 4. Zerstorer and me proposed -2 from original Panzer IV (JagdPanzers hull) Ini on the L/70 due to Assault Gun and long, heavy gun. L/48 version did not suffer from the latter, so methinks it should only have -1 to Ini.

Now all we need is for someone to make these 2 units in plastic.

Agreed...i had meant to write 4-4-2-5, 21 points....and of course it needs Blitzkrieg and Assault gun. I really think 21 points works well in play balance. Compared to a Stug iiig using cracking the code, the L48 should be 8 points more than the Stug and come in at 23 points but the Stug is seen by many as overly expensive. If you go with 20 points, a player could field 5 of these. They seem pretty powerful compared to a Sherman 75 that also costs 20 points.

I think doctrine cards or a keyword for ambush is still needed too, but not sure how to create those and limit them to appropriate vehicles. An ambush keyword is the easier fix....+2 shooting initiative when stationary in cover would be good...I would like to see that for the Hetzer, Jgpz IV, Archer....but I suppose that should add a point or two to the cost of those vehicles. I don't think I would simply give them higher initiative numbers overall, so the ambush keyword would work better. I will try to playtest it, but my gut feel is without an initiative buff these tank destroyers won't perform as they should.

Edited by user Monday, August 28, 2017 5:29:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Do what gf9 does and give it a cost that doesn't necessarily correspond with the math, but makes the doctrine a tactical choice opposed to a given. Even one point is a cost worth considering.

Edit: would Ambush's wording be compatible with Hull Gun?

Edited by user Tuesday, August 29, 2017 1:16:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification.

What #'s would you recommend for the Pantherthurm that was made with the spare Panther turret that was left?

The person introducing me to Tanks suggested that anyone could use 'captured' vehicles, but they cost the same, and can't use the original force trait ability. So, a German force could use Sherman tanks, without 'Gung Ho', or a Cromwell without 'Semi-indirect Fire'. No reduction in the cost of the unit, because the capturing force is using unfamiliar equipment.

Jagdpanzer cards updated and relinked above.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:27:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The most common idea so far for 'Beutepanzers' or Captured Tanks was to actually make a separate cards for them. For me it makes sense. Normally captured tanks were undergoing at least basic refit (radios) to be compatible with their new forces. Germans on Eastern Front were going full-on Pimp my Tank. New radios, new stowage, commander's cupolas rewelded from written off Panzers III or IVs, schurzen, the lot. So I'd go with the route of repricing a captured tank including national trait. And trying to be historically accurate I would not allow any tank to be 'captured', but that's just me. For example:
Beutepanzer t-34 747(r) 4-4-1-5, Blitzkrieg, Fast, Cost: 20
Thruth be told, so far I haven't managed to definately crack the cost of National Traits hence I'm erring on overcost side.

@Jhary: I believe that OldGuy only ment National Traits being lost.

I think my buddy only meant the national traits. Also, the captured tank wouldn't get the new national trait, just loose the previous trait.

He was trying to keep the cheese factor down, and not have people show up with an American unit filled with British, German and Russian tanks.

So yes, you could have a captured Tiger in an American unit, but it wouldn't have either Blitzkreig, nor Gung Ho, and would still cost the same as a regular Tiger. This was to keep things simple. All the other stuff about pimpin' the tank out to work with the new nationality would be assumed. At least the radios would be changed out. But that wouldn't show up on a card, anyway.