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Cerebus  
#1 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 3:24:38 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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Me and my 9yr old came up with this rule for those pesky walls that litter the battle field (can be used for hedges as well probably). We tend to have a reasonable amount of scenery on the table a) because it looks nice, and b) because I painted it so I'm bl***y gonna use it. So walls quickly became an issue.

Now bear in mind this is only for free standing walls - not buildings. We wanted something that would allow for dramatic crashing through walls to shoot at the enemy.

A moving tank can attempt to move thorough one or more walls each movement phase. Each attempt will require a D6 check, and will fail on a 1.

If the check is failed the tank stops here, he may attempt to cross again next turn.
The tank receives a Movement marker for their movement cost + 1.

If the test passes, the tank can carry on and complete its movement. The wall section is removed from the table (it makes no difference if your wall section is 3" long or 12"long - remove the whole section, it keeps things simple). Again the tank receives a Movement marker for its movement cost + 1.

My reasoning for the +1 : From the wall breakers point of view smashing through a wall will affect your aim etc, and the faster you go the more unstable you are. So crashing through walls in a Comet at speed 3 and attempting to shoot Wittman up the backside will really be a shot in the dark. But, oh! those camp fire tales of when it came off.

From the point of view of the innocent tank standing there minding its own business. There he is, commander asleep, driver playing with his gear nob, gunner and loader playing cards. When suddenly a tank crashes through the once solid wall behind you. I think the +1 suprise factor seems fair don't you?

We gave it a run out and it seemed to work well. The release of the damage cards may cause some problems but i think its something i'll carry on using. Feel free to comment or use for your own games.

nixon187  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 3:53:00 AM(UTC)
nixon187

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The idea is nice but movement plus 1 seems a bit harsh.
Why should i remove potential cover for a movement token plus 1?

Think about fast tanks: 4 Tokens mean 4 defense dice which is a lot.

I also would differ between fast, normal and heavy tanks.
Fast tanks were light allowing them to drive fast so i would say 4+ for breaking wall.
Normal tanks will need 3+ for breaking a wall.
Heavy tanks 2+ for breaking (so only a 1 fails).
Maybe failing an attempt would end in dealing 1 damage to the tank or the crew is dazzled by the attempt so they arent allowed to make another movement that phase.

The idea is good indeed but u got to test it a lot. Same like Ramming e.g. ;)
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Cerebus on 4/8/2016(UTC)
Cerebus  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 5:51:14 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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Originally Posted by: nixon187 Go to Quoted Post
The idea is nice but movement plus 1 seems a bit harsh.
Why should i remove potential cover for a movement token plus 1?


You don't have to at all, its a choice. The chance to get behind an opponent may be the chance you need to turn the battle. If the wall wasn't there you'd take the +1 movement. And driving through a wall will affect your shot. There are other ways to adjust the chance to hit (like the mods to short range etc) but this seemed to me to give a penalty to both sides when shooting either as the tank moving or the stationary tank.

Originally Posted by: nixon187 Go to Quoted Post
Think about fast tanks: 4 Tokens mean 4 defense dice which is a lot.


Yes I know. Having not played with fast tanks yet that may be a little OTT. More testing required.

Originally Posted by: nixon187 Go to Quoted Post
I also would differ between fast, normal and heavy tanks.
Fast tanks were light allowing them to drive fast so i would say 4+ for breaking wall.
Normal tanks will need 3+ for breaking a wall.
Heavy tanks 2+ for breaking (so only a 1 fails).
Maybe failing an attempt would end in dealing 1 damage to the tank or the crew is dazzled by the attempt so they arent allowed to make another movement that phase.


I see where you're coming from but I wanted something simple which doesn't slow the game down much and require more numbers to remember (or forget), which when you're playing with a 9yr old is vitally important so they don't get bored. I've played FOW with him and the attention span tends to wander. That's the beauty of house rules, take em as far as you want to.

Originally Posted by: nixon187 Go to Quoted Post
The idea is good indeed but u got to test it a lot. Same like Ramming e.g. ;)


Oh yes, I wasn't saying these are the finished article, and more games will produce more anomalies, but I thought I'd put them out. As for ramming? Nah. It's not WoT. ;-)
nixon187  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 6:04:58 AM(UTC)
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I will definitly test this out some time soon, i will report back then. ;)

The problem i see is also that the rules didnt cover anything about covering behind walls.
Bolt Action states a tank is in cover if 50% or more are hidden behind an object.
Tanks just says if i can see 2 or less corners of the vehicle, the vehicle is in cover. Hidden behind houses or in woods is easy to declare because these objects are often higher than the tank.
But walls only cover some parts of a corner. The problem i was trying to explain is that there are no actual rules for vertical cover like in BA e.g.

So when do we declare a tank in cover behind a wall?
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Cerebus on 4/8/2016(UTC)
Cerebus  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 8:01:06 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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I know what you mean by no rules about cover behind walls. Currently I have two heights of wall available to me. Small stone walls which dont block LOS or offer cover, and taller walls which do block LOS and can offer cover. So i suppose the rules I've come up with suit my situation but may not suit other people. Perhaps the rules mean the entire vertical height of the corner. Bottom of track to top of engine housing for example. That may work?

I have a problem with fields in FOW. I use door mats as fields and as such the tanks sit on top which raises their angle of attack and allows them to shoot over some obstacles (and also be shot at!). I've tried saying that they aren't really at that height but this causes confusion. So I now say that all fields in France were built on a raised platform of garlic and baguettes, and as such are a foot or so higher than surrounding terrain. :-)

The problem is trying make a game quick and simple yet realistic (to some degree). Something has to give.

There's a game by Mantic games called Mars Attacks which uses a "if anything is hidden from view you have cover" rule. This seems fine until only a foot is hidden and yet offers the same cover as a man with only one foot showing gets.

It's a difficult one.
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nixon187 on 4/8/2016(UTC)
nixon187  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 8:10:07 AM(UTC)
nixon187

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Yeah its a generall problem with skirmish games. They should be easy to learn but most poeple want it to be some kind of realistic.

I really hope to see some more interactions with terrain in the future. The game is fairly new and not even released yet, so lets hope some things will change over time. :)

I think the way to go for more expirienced players, who want more realism, are house rules. My buddy and i really tested out alot the last weeks and tried out some rules made by our own or taken from the forum. Most rules we tested were more interactions with terrain. We didnt change the game system at all, only expand the rules. Some really fit in nice.

Maybe a "house rule thread" for collecting peoples personal rules would be nice. Giving the developers some ideas for developing the game for the future. ;)

Edited by user Friday, April 8, 2016 8:12:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cerebus  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 8:15:32 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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Originally Posted by: nixon187 Go to Quoted Post


Maybe a "house rule thread" for collecting peoples personal rules would be nice. Giving the developers some ideas for developing the game for the future. ;)


Now that's a great idea.
Sean at TANKS HQ  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 9:05:16 AM(UTC)
Sean at TANKS HQ

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I think the important thing with TANKS, especially if you're playing at home, is that it's easy to come to an agreement with your opponent about things like cover.
Low walls may not be in the rulebook, but if you and your opponent look at a tank and say, "I think he'd have cover behind this wall." "Sounds right to me." then go for gold.
It's all about communicating with the other player and having fun.

We have a lot of extra terrain on many of our tables too (Flames Of War hand-me-downs) and we just cover everything quickly at the start of a game.
Cerebus  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 8, 2016 9:18:28 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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Totally agree Sean.

Obviously when playing with my son, walls magically change shape and size depending on whether I need cover or space for a shot ;-) . We use a laser pointer for some LOS problems, but I have to remind him to line the pointer up with the barrel, not a good inch to the right so he can get a clean shot :-)
rcshield  
#10 Posted : Saturday, April 9, 2016 9:05:27 AM(UTC)
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I generally do not change the game much via house rules but I have often created house rules for scenarios. Often my interest has been to create a more realistic historical setting for example rules regarding movement in snow, or the effect of a variety of terrain like a bombed out city with few if any structures unaffected by bombing...
hithero  
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 9, 2016 4:43:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sean at TANKS HQ Go to Quoted Post
I think the important thing with TANKS, especially if you're playing at home, is that it's easy to come to an agreement with your opponent about things like cover.
Low walls may not be in the rulebook, but if you and your opponent look at a tank and say, "I think he'd have cover behind this wall." "Sounds right to me." then go for gold.
It's all about communicating with the other player and having fun.

We have a lot of extra terrain on many of our tables too (Flames Of War hand-me-downs) and we just cover everything quickly at the start of a game.


Surely walls and hedges are very common terrain and should be in the rules?
Sean at TANKS HQ  
#12 Posted : Monday, April 11, 2016 9:13:23 AM(UTC)
Sean at TANKS HQ

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Originally Posted by: hithero Go to Quoted Post
Surely walls and hedges are very common terrain and should be in the rules?


They are not part of the base game, or the core rules in the starter set.
But don't worry, there's plenty of material down the pipeline that expands upon those core rules and Organised Play Seasons will be the main outlet for it.
nixon187  
#13 Posted : Monday, April 11, 2016 10:14:43 PM(UTC)
nixon187

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Originally Posted by: Sean at TANKS HQ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hithero Go to Quoted Post
Surely walls and hedges are very common terrain and should be in the rules?


They are not part of the base game, or the core rules in the starter set.
But don't worry, there's plenty of material down the pipeline that expands upon those core rules and Organised Play Seasons will be the main outlet for it.

Oh yeah thats what i like to hear. :P

Cerebus  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:43:56 AM(UTC)
Cerebus

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I knew the 8' x 4' table was a good idea :-)
actionmackie  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:16:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cerebus Go to Quoted Post
I knew the 8' x 4' table was a good idea :-)


Bigger is always better when it comes to Tanks ;)
rcshield  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:03:24 PM(UTC)
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Organized play just got better and more interesting. A very good place to test things out and encourage participation. Lots of options around terrain have been mentioned or at least discussed. I am looking forward to the organized play season. Now I just hope a local store decides to add this to the line up.

Edited by user Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:04:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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