While pondering about stats for tank destroyers that are not in the game yet, I have come across a problem. Most of what seems to make up a high initiative number in Tanks has to do with mobility and having a turret. Relatively fast and maneuverable vehicles get high initiative numbers (Cromwell, Shermans, Comet, Panther), although this seems to be somewhat offset by crew nationality and tactics (Russian tanks seem to have lower initiative than similar counterparts from other nationalities).

Tank destroyers create a significant problem for the game. Many of these were very effective in ambush and hard to see (low profile, small target....e.g. Hetzer, Archer, Stug-IIIg). Tank destroyers with a turret seem to be fine in the game...Achilles, M-10 and Jackson have relatively high initiative numbers..., but the German and Russian TD's are very low. The SU-100 and Stug IIIg (an assault gun, but often used as a TD) have very low initiative.

While trying to make stats for the Archer, I gave it a lower initiative than the Achilles. I also gave it slow speed since the driver had to move from his seat for the gun to fire and the gun faces to the rear making it fine for the cautious move after shooting, but not much else. However, other users pointed out that the Archer actually was very good in ambush and should have a high initiative number. What to do???? Everything about the way the Archer moves, its lack of turret etc., seems to indicate it should have a low initiative in Tanks. For that matter, the German Hetzer, another excellent ambush vehicle, would also have a low initiative.

I think the answer here is to have either a split initiative number, or a new key word....ambush. You could give such vehicles two different initiative numbers, one for movement and one for shooting. Another option that I think is better would be to give such vehicles the ambush key word. When the vehicle is stationary in cover, add +2 (or more?) to its shooting initiative. The recon key word would not help here...we need these vehicles to have a better chance of shooting first...as they should! I would also give these vehicles the cautious key word.

In this way, they are not dominant beasts when moving around the battlefield, but they are powerful when using good ambush tactics. Turreted tank destroyers stay as they currently are. Of course, the problem is the SU-85, SU-100, Stug IIIg and other cards are already out there. One solution might be to create this card as a tactics card or some such that can only be added to certain vehicles?

If you search the forum for the topic Cracking The Code, you can see I tried to hash out some numbers for the Archer and came up with too low a points total based on the formula. Now I am going with only deducting 1 point for slow, and adding 2 points for the Ambush code. I came up with a 17 point Archer using that method. That seems reasonable. It is one point less than an Achilles and has poor initiative when it moves, but is an efficient killer when lying in wait in ambush!

Edited by user Sunday, January 1, 2017 7:13:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I made cards for the Hetzer and the Archer using my Ambush key word concept.

I have the Hetzer at 3-5-1-4, Blitzkrieg, Assaukt Gun, Ambush, Cautious, 24 points

I have the Archer at 4-6-0-3, Semi-Indirect Fire, Assault Gun, Ambush, Cautious, Slow, 17 pts.

Or maybe, instead of keyword, introduce a blanket rule for all Assault Guns (turreted Tank destroyers excluded, as they are o.k.) called Ambush. This way StuG and SU would benefit too.

Edited by user Monday, January 2, 2017 9:10:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Then perhaps the best solution might be to have it as an upgrade card: 'Ambush Tactics' - Discard this card to give +2 Initiative, +1 Attack in the Shooting phase (or something like that), only useable by Tank Destroyers. Alternatively as a commander crew card 'Ambush Specialist' for a permanent addition.