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AnotherTanker  
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2016 9:05:48 PM(UTC)
AnotherTanker

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What I'm trying to figure out is how a tank's base initiative value is calculated. Does anyone know exactly what determines a tank's initiative rating?

Is there some formula or equation (or even tank characteristics) that is used to determine a tank's base initiative rating? Or are these just arbitrarily assigned to tanks?

The only thing I can figure out is that crew quality is not a factor in determining a tank's base initiative value.

LordOfKhemri  
#2 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2016 12:30:52 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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I think it's based on turret rotation speed, visibility, acceleration of tank, general manoeuvrability etc.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Thundertotem  
#3 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2016 3:16:28 AM(UTC)
Thundertotem

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Originally Posted by: AnotherTanker Go to Quoted Post
The only thing I can figure out is that crew quality is not a factor in determining a tank's base initiative value.


Honestly, I disagree with you. I think Crew Quality plays a factor.
Panzer Vor!!!
AnotherTanker  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2016 3:43:48 AM(UTC)
AnotherTanker

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Do the game developers check their own forums?
Do they support their game?
LordOfKhemri  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2016 4:17:49 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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One posting is enough on this subject.
Please don't flood.

I got all excited that there were some new posts.sadly not.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
thanks 1 user thanked LordOfKhemri for this useful post.
Tally - Ho on 10/26/2016(UTC)
Andrew at Tanks HQ  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2016 8:45:57 AM(UTC)
Andrew at Tanks HQ

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This number is based on loads of factors, like all the other stats in the game there is a complex formula that goes into figuring out what their final numbers are.

For Initiative, most of what goes into this number is equipment based, how fast is the tank, how fast does the turret rotate, how much viability does the tank have, is it opened top, how many men operate the turret, how many operate the tank and much more fiddly bits.

Phil Yates has a spreadsheet he has created over the years that has loads of factors added into it, and we used that spreadsheet to generate this number. The number basically comes down to the tanks ability to react during a fight, so anything that would effect this gets factored in.

So to make a long answer a bit shorter, this is not an easy question to answer because it's not a simple formula that creates this number.

The quality of crew does not play a part, as each tank is considered to have an average crew. It is the crew cards you add that indicates an above average crew.

Hopes this clears some things up.
-Andrew

Edited by user Wednesday, October 26, 2016 8:46:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked Andrew at Tanks HQ for this useful post.
Tally - Ho on 10/26/2016(UTC), WolfBenrath on 10/26/2016(UTC)
AnotherTanker  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:55:18 PM(UTC)
AnotherTanker

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Originally Posted by: Andrew at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post
This number is based on loads of factors, like all the other stats in the game there is a complex formula that goes into figuring out what their final numbers are.

For Initiative, most of what goes into this number is equipment based, how fast is the tank, how fast does the turret rotate, how much viability does the tank have, is it opened top, how many men operate the turret, how many operate the tank and much more fiddly bits.

Phil Yates has a spreadsheet he has created over the years that has loads of factors added into it, and we used that spreadsheet to generate this number. The number basically comes down to the tanks ability to react during a fight, so anything that would effect this gets factored in.

So to make a long answer a bit shorter, this is not an easy question to answer because it's not a simple formula that creates this number.

The quality of crew does not play a part, as each tank is considered to have an average crew. It is the crew cards you add that indicates an above average crew.

Hopes this clears some things up.
-Andrew


Andrew, first thank you for taking the time to respond to my post because this does help and is very useful. This at least confirms my suspicion that all the tank cards are considered to have average crews, and that the initiative rating is based off the characteristics of the tank.

I agree that this is not an easy question to answer because "it's not a simple formula that creates this number." However, it would be interesting to see how in detail the initiative ratings for both the Sherman (75mm) and Panther was determined. Using some of the details you mentioned above, it would seem that the Sherman (75mm) should have had a higher rating than the Panther. For example, equipment based:

Turret rotation speed - The Sherman is much faster than the Panther.
Turret space for crew - Both are about the same (not cramped compared to others).
Tank's Speed - The Sherman is slightly better than the Panther.
Battlefield Reliability - The Sherman is much better than the Panther.
Normal cross county mobility - Both are the same.
Road or hard ground mobility - Sherman is better because of tracks, see "tracks" below.
Ground Pressure - The Panther is better than the Sherman.
Visibility when buttoned - both are the same, both very poor visibility.
Visibility when unbottoned - both are the same if crew quality are equal.
Number of crew - both are the same.
Crew layout - both are the same.
Crew in turret - both are the same.
Crew communication with each other - both are the same (good compared to others).
Crew comfort - Both are about the same (good compared to others).
Rate of fire - The Sherman has a higher ROF than the Panther.
Gun stability - No contest Sherman wins. "Gung Ho" handles this (Gun Stabilizer).
Main Gun optics - German optics was better, and this applies to all tanks.
Acceleration ability - The Sherman is better than the Panther.
Braking ability - both are about the same.
Turning ability - The Sherman is better.
Suspension - The Panther is better.
Handling (driving) - The Sherman is better.
Turning (driving) - The Sherman is better.
Size - The Sherman is smaller (target acquisition).
Weight - The Sherman is lighter.
Internal equipment layout - For ease of use, both are about the same.
Radio Equipment - Both have radios - helps with communication and battlefield awareness.
Tracks - The Sherman's rubber blocked tracks have several advantages over the Panther's all steel tracks.

There are a few other little tank characteristics we can take a look at, but in most cases (not all) the Sherman is better than the Panther. So, using some of the major characteristics of the two tanks like turret speed and whatnot, it would seem that the Sherman (75mm) should have had a higher rating than the Panther.









thanks 1 user thanked AnotherTanker for this useful post.
Ed on 10/28/2016(UTC)
LordOfKhemri  
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:11:13 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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After that list may I suggest that this simple game of Tanks that can be played several times in one night, with plenty of fun being had, might not be quite what you are looking for?
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
AnotherTanker  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 27, 2016 6:12:06 PM(UTC)
AnotherTanker

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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
After that list may I suggest that this simple game of Tanks that can be played several times in one night, with plenty of fun being had, might not be quite what you are looking for?


I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the initiative numbers were derived.

As for the long list, Andrew did say, "For Initiative, most of what goes into this number is equipment based, how fast is the tank, how fast does the turret rotate, how much viability does the tank have, is it opened top, how many men operate the turret, how many operate the tank and much more fiddly bits."

I'm still really confused about the Cromwell's initiative number.

Ed  
#10 Posted : Friday, October 28, 2016 1:22:15 PM(UTC)
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Thanks 'Another Tanker'. Post #7 gives good insight to Andrews answer.
Tally - Ho  
#11 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2016 1:48:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: AnotherTanker Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
After that list may I suggest that this simple game of Tanks that can be played several times in one night, with plenty of fun being had, might not be quite what you are looking for?


I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the initiative numbers were derived.

As for the long list, Andrew did say, "For Initiative, most of what goes into this number is equipment based, how fast is the tank, how fast does the turret rotate, how much viability does the tank have, is it opened top, how many men operate the turret, how many operate the tank and much more fiddly bits."

I'm still really confused about the Cromwell's initiative number.



I have to say I agree with His Lordship.

Although I will say this is the first time I have ever heard anyone make the case a Sherman 75mm was better than a Panther. At least on any forums I keep up with. (Maybe I need to get out more.)
AnotherTanker  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2016 3:05:45 AM(UTC)
AnotherTanker

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Originally Posted by: Ed Go to Quoted Post
Thanks 'Another Tanker'. Post #7 gives good insight to Andrews answer.


Thank you Ed.

Originally Posted by: Tally - Ho Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AnotherTanker Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
After that list may I suggest that this simple game of Tanks that can be played several times in one night, with plenty of fun being had, might not be quite what you are looking for?


I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the initiative numbers were derived.

As for the long list, Andrew did say, "For Initiative, most of what goes into this number is equipment based, how fast is the tank, how fast does the turret rotate, how much viability does the tank have, is it opened top, how many men operate the turret, how many operate the tank and much more fiddly bits."

I'm still really confused about the Cromwell's initiative number.



I have to say I agree with His Lordship.

Although I will say this is the first time I have ever heard anyone make the case a Sherman 75mm was better than a Panther. At least on any forums I keep up with. (Maybe I need to get out more.)


Actually, in a lot of ways the Sherman was a better tank than the Panther. Just not when it came to the main gun and front armor, but these are separate values in the game and not related to the initiative value. Or are they?

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