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Sherman 105mm in British Service
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Recently I have been reading an Osprey book regarding Anti Tank defense doctrine during WW2. In this book the Author makes the statement that the Sherman Tanks armed with the 105mm howitzer were actually quite effective at destroying Panthers at close range. (I did find an online source that verified this - but I am not always confident in online sources.)
My question is which Sherman Models that were in British Commonwealth service had the 105mm gun?
I have found conflicting information in regards to this and was hoping that some who are much more knowledgeable in regards to Sherman Tanks can give me some guidance.
I was thinking about making some Mk. II's and Mk. III's but I want to make sure before I get carried away. (I do not want to make the same mistake I made with making some M4A1's into Fireflies.)
Thanks in advance.
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Rank: Commander
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From what ive read the brittish commonwealth and polish used these in italy exclusivley. They allegedly filled the role of close support tanks being 2nd and 3rd in each squadron hq.
It was the M4 varient that was used to support sabre troops with HE and Smoke shells.
It seems that they were also often positioned on log piles to increase the max elevation of the gun for indirect fire roles.
Hope this is helpful
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Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of... |
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Rank: Commander
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Pretty much what Kelvin said above, but with my twopence added. Commonwealth forces in questions were the Canadians (5th Canadian Armoured Division) and with ending of hostilities in Italy it was relocated to NW Europe theatre of war, along with their 105mm Shermans. The Shermans themselves existed in two varieties, M4 105mm (used by Canadians and Polish) and M4A3 105mm (used eclusively by U.S.). They were only build on a late Sherman hull (47 degrees glacis with large hatches). High bustle type turret was used with added ventilator (between the hatches to the back of the turret). In British Army they were known as Sherman IB. Tally-Ho, can You drop us the title of the book and the source? Might be an interesting read... Edited by user Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:18:59 PM(UTC)
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5th Canadian transferred to NWE long before hostilities ended in Italy (which was at the same time as NWE)
A few other units acquired 105 Shermans too. 21st army group returns showed the following in june 45;
7th armoured- 1
4th armoured- 4
8th Armoured- 3
It is possible though that these were delivered after VE day.
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Rank: Commander
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Originally Posted by: JagdWehrwolf  Tally-Ho, can You drop us the title of the book and the source? Might be an interesting read... The title of the book is: World War II Infantry Anti-Tank Tactics By: Gordon L Rottman It is part of the Osprey Publications Elite Series I have found it to be a fairly good read. My biggest complaint has been that even though it is advertised as a book on Anti-Tank weapons & tactics the Author spends 20% of the book discussing Tanks as well as tank doctrine. I had bought the book because I have been discussing Anti-Tank gun theory and how it translates into certain game mechanics in regards to another game. I thought it would not hurt to do a little more research. I would be interested in your feedback if you ever read it. P.S. If you happen to have any recommendations on any good books regarding Anti-Tank Doctrine & Tactics I would be glad to hear them. I am particularly interested in Russian & British; but, anything else will do to go down the road with.
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 1 user thanked Tally - Ho for this useful post.
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Rank: Commander
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Much thanks to all who responded.
It appears that my idea of making a group of Sherman 105's to use as proxy Short Range British Tank Destroyers will have to wait until they make a plastic M4.
So now I must figure out what to do with this box of M4A2's that I bought by mistake.
No one knows the trouble I have seen. ;>)
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Originally Posted by: Tally - Ho So now I must figure out what to do with this box of M4A2's that I bought by mistake. M4A2? That's the Sherman III in British armies, just use the same stats as the Sherman V (75mm gun only).
Or, the Soviets used the M4A2 - it's the only one they'd accept as it ran on diesel. They used both the 75mm and 76mm armed versions, I believe?
Or, US Marine forces in the Pacific.
Cheers.
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Rank: Commander
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Originally Posted by: Raider4 Originally Posted by: Tally - Ho So now I must figure out what to do with this box of M4A2's that I bought by mistake. [size=4 ]M4A2? That's the Sherman III in British armies, just use the same stats as the Sherman V (75mm gun only). Or, the Soviets used the M4A2 - it's the only one they'd accept as it ran on diesel. They used both the 75mm and 76mm armed versions, I believe? Or, US Marine forces in the Pacific. Cheers.[/size] I have been considering using them as Emchas. My only hesitation is that I cannot remember if the Russians used the stock gun with the 76mm version or if they up gunned it. I thought I had info showing that they upgraded the gun but I cannot seem to find it. I am wondering if I am confusing the Sherman with the Matilda in this regards. My other source of hesitation is that I currently have a pretty large Soviet force and was looking to add some variety to my British force to bring it up to strength. I already have a bunch of Mk. III's and Mk.V's and was hoping to do something a little less common.
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Rank: Commander
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@Nigel Maddaford Of course You are right. 'End of hostilities' my ar*e... What the hell I was thinking writing that.
@Tally-Ho Thanks for the book, might take a look in the future. I can't really return the favour though. Atm I'm reading 'Scouts Out' by Robert J. Edwards discussing history, doctrine, etc. of German armoured recce forces. My Mate is slowly but surely dragging me into Bolt Action, so I decided for a Aufklarungs Abteilung and am doing research.
On Your Sherman problem. The main difference between them is the engine cover. And so it happens that M4A1 had exactly same cover as M4. So if You're not afraid of scalpel, file and a glue and got a spare kit farting around... The only problem is that if it's ZV kit than the turret is wrong. Best base for for M4 (105) is American Sherman kit (correct turret, included mantlet and gun on the sprue, correct glacis).
And yes, You are confusing tanks. Apparently Soviets really liked 76mm M1 gun (according to Loza) and did not see the point of rearming it.
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1 user thanked JagdWehrwolf for this useful post.
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Rank: Commander
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Course they liked it. Have you never seen FPS Russia?! Bigger boom is like there national rule.
Tally ho, you could possibly make hessian strip camo brittish to hide differences or even objective markers. |
Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of... |
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Rank: Commander
Posts: 214
Thanks: 41 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 17 post(s)
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Thanks to all for their input.
Since I was mistaken about the gun on the Emcha being switched out I think for simplicity's sake I will just go ahead and make Emchas. I primarily play Russians anyhow and this will add some more variety to all those T-34's. The only reason I ever started to build a British force was because there had not been anything new in plastic for the Russians and it appears that there will not be with any of the main manufacturer's for a a bit. Although GF9 hinted that maybe late 2018.
Would be nice if GF9 would come out with official cards for these Lend Lease Units. They did do one for the M10 after all.
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Rank: Commander
Posts: 197
Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 29 time(s) in 17 post(s)
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Yep. Card packs like attack wing would be good |
Kelvin Griffiths, Attack Wing Captain, Lord Of Rings Hero and Tank Commander. Sort of... |
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Sherman 105mm in British Service
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