Search
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please try to register or login.
2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Chris at Tanks HQ  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2016 2:56:25 PM(UTC)
Chris at Tanks HQ

Rank: HQ

Posts: 13

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 6 post(s)
World War II provides a rich history for us here at Battlefront/GF9 to draw from when creating TANKS and the associated range of miniatures. We pride ourselves on creating fantastic gaming miniatures that are easy to assemble and robust enough for gaming.

We understand that many people want to create and use tanks not yet available in the game and we are excited by the creativity that many of you have exhibited. Whilst we intend on continually adding new models to our range we cannot have "all" of them "now".

Whilst using these forums though we would ask that you keep your discussion regarding the physical models and the posting of any photos limited to those in the TANKS range. This is not about trying to ban discussion of what tanks you would like to see added next, or even theorycrafting stats for the Maus, E-100 or any other tank. Rather it is about the comparisons (positive and negative) between our models and 3rd party ones.

This is not an independent forum and therefore feel that discussion regarding the pros and cons of the various models available should be kept to our models as there are plenty of other places to discuss the variety of miniatures available.

Plus our Tanks come with cards!

Chris

Edited by moderator Friday, September 30, 2016 3:17:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Chris at Tanks HQ for this useful post.
Tally - Ho on 10/4/2016(UTC)
LordOfKhemri  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2016 7:27:35 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

Rank: Commander

Posts: 457

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 84 time(s) in 69 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Chris at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post


Plus our Tanks come with cards!

Chris


Not wishing to be overly sarcastic as I like this forum but let's seek Commodore Decker's thoughts on that statement.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Rhet Sark  
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 6:59:26 AM(UTC)
Rhet Sark

Rank: Commander

Posts: 80

Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
I have completed my Tanks! collection so far with 1 each of the GF9 Tanks models (plus the starter) and filled in a second set with FOW models. As the plastic FOW range is manufactured by BattleFront miniatures (just as the plastic Gale Force 9 models are) these tanks are indistinguishable from one another. Do I need to exclude my FOW models from photos I use in my discussions? Or can we continue to discuss those as both come from BattleFront?
CommodoreDecker  
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 11:15:09 AM(UTC)
CommodoreDecker

Rank: Commander

Posts: 128

Thanks: 19 times
Was thanked: 12 time(s) in 11 post(s)
Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Chris at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post


Plus our Tanks come with cards!

Chris


Not wishing to be overly sarcastic as I like this forum but let's seek Commodore Decker's thoughts on that statement.



I also don't wish to be sarcastic. I love the game, and I also love the gf9 models.
I do take opposition to the statement that "our tanks come with cards" however because it is not entirely true. GF9 tanks do not seem to come at all. Three different times I have been told delivery dates by Tanks HQ people on here, and I have taken that information to my players and my lgs, the Tanks have not come. I whipped a large group of players up, got the store to give me a great time slot on a good night for the league, and the only thing that has happened is my credibility has been damaged.
I really really love the game. I was scheduled to run it at a regional convention tomorrow but I'm not because there is still no product. I've personally put over 100 hours into promoting this game, spent my own money making fliers, and got everyone at the store to try it, and in the end it was for nought.
I respect that they do not want other models discusses on their forum, I didn't talk about others anyway.
This is going to be real close to my last post here so what I talk about is inconsequential. The game officially dies here if we don't have product and the OP2 kit by next Friday. They are giving the time slot to Gates of Anatares, which I'll also be running.
In closing, if they only want us to talk about their products we should all go silent and not make a post until they actually deliver said product....with cards.
PilGrim  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 3, 2016 7:53:52 PM(UTC)
PilGrim

Rank: Commander

Posts: 120

Thanks: 14 times
Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 13 post(s)
I always feel that when companies stifle conversation about other models etc it shows a lack of faith in the ability of their product to compete in a fair and level marketplace. That's clearly a mindset many have, but that doesn't make it right or healthy.

I have many other models that I use, but I have bought the "official" tanks ones too. On the whole they are good models and come (and in deference to Commodore Decker I will add "if they come at all") with cards which is a bonus. Some are actually market leaders, but if comparisons cannot be made how can we express this other than as sycophantic drivel?

Companies that refuse to acknowledge the existence of competitors are on a road to nowhere. Players need to purchase the starter set to have the basics to play, so unless the company is worries that their products are inferior (or overpriced) why the insistence on what is in effect a gagging order? The game needs a regular influx of new players to grow. Placing barriers to entry and expansion is not going to do that. Would GF9 rather sell a starter set and have someone use third party miniatures or not sell the starter set at all and watch the game shrivel and die?

Free speech is important, be it to praise or criticise, and only by hearing criticism and feedback, and reacting to competitors products, can a company continue to offer a good service - this is basic business practice.
thanks 2 users thanked PilGrim for this useful post.
SirClash on 10/4/2016(UTC), Conall on 10/4/2016(UTC)
Conall  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:22:41 AM(UTC)
Conall

Rank: Commander

Posts: 50

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Chris at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post


Whilst using these forums though we would ask that you keep your discussion regarding the physical models and the posting of any photos limited to those in the TANKS range. This is not about trying to ban discussion of what tanks you would like to see added next, or even theory crafting stats for the Maus, E-100 or any other tank. Rather it is about the comparisons (positive and negative) between our models and 3rd party ones.

This is not an independent forum and therefore feel that discussion regarding the pros and cons of the various models available should be kept to our models as there are plenty of other places to discuss the variety of miniatures available.


Chris


Dear Chris,

I would whole-heartedly echo the comments so eloquently made by PilGrim. This is a very negative development. I recognise this is your forum (and, therefore, your rules), for which you are bearing the costs, and its purpose is to support your commercial enterprise (Tanks) but this strikes me as very counterproductive and excessively controlling.

In the first instance, as PilGrim states, be confident and open to feedback/criticism both positive and negative. Better still respond to it and demonstrate you are addressing the issues raised. You'll gain a lot more (loyal) customers than you lose through this approach. And you've hardly covered yourselves in glory in respect to customer service or meeting demand so far...

Secondly, this forum is an advert for your game. You should be encouraging as much traffic and as many posts as possible through an energised, enthusiastic and open debate. By limiting it so prescriptively you will stifle it. And to be brutally frank the forum is already pretty moribund, there are whole days which go by when no posts are made or at best one or two. You should be doing your level best to get people here and posting as much as possible, not the reverse. If that means they compare your products to those of others, both positively and negatively, then so be it. And for what it is worth your products are generally pretty good, so be confident! And if people are using other models in preference, it's not the end of the world, as they will still be buying starter sets, terrain and other ancilliaries, as well as your own tank models so you will benefit anyway. Go and take a look at the Wings of War Aerodrome website where there is much more free speech and a very supportive attitude taken by the game designers/producers. Then compare the numbers posting and extrapolate that into potential sales. And then have a rethink and stop shooting yourselves in the foot and instead focus on meeting the currently unfulfilled demand which you have generated.

Tom

thanks 1 user thanked Conall for this useful post.
PilGrim on 10/4/2016(UTC)
Ds335  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:22:33 AM(UTC)
Ds335

Rank: Gunner

Posts: 13

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I think you are all right, i got all GF9 Tanks, have two Starters and all OpKits. But i have also tots of tanks from others. A forum is for free discussion and should not be regulated like this.
thanks 1 user thanked Ds335 for this useful post.
PilGrim on 10/4/2016(UTC)
SirClash  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:36:52 AM(UTC)
SirClash

Rank: Loader

Posts: 8

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I don't have much else to say here when most have been said already, but can we please get some reply from the devs? Don't just sit quiet, show us that you care more about us then about your exclusivity. Thanks
Rhet Sark  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:55:13 AM(UTC)
Rhet Sark

Rank: Commander

Posts: 80

Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
If it helps booster GF9 confidence any, when I started I only had the starter. The official expansions just were not available locally. I needed to TRY the game before I decided if I wanted to pursue obtaining all the official expansions. Were it not for some readily available old tanks I had laying around from a collectible minis WW2 game, I would not have been ABLE to try your game. I invested in laser cut bases (because my collectible tanks were WAY TOO small) to bring up the size and play with them. But the point here is that using those 3rd party models didn't discourage me from buying into Tanks, instead they helped me learn that I wanted to build and paint more than the Starter Tanks, and that I wanted to collect all the expansion specific cards. So NOW, I have fought through ebay, preorders from my local store, and waiting for back orders rom the Store linked at this website until I had one of everything.

Those 3rd party tanks I had didn't hurt your business, they encouraged it. So please keep that in mind as you consider enforcing a ban on speaking about such things.
thanks 1 user thanked Rhet Sark for this useful post.
Conall on 10/4/2016(UTC)
Tally - Ho  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:37:56 AM(UTC)
Tally - Ho

Rank: Commander

Posts: 214

Thanks: 41 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 17 post(s)
A Few thoughts:

1. This is a Tanks forum; so the request to discuss Tanks / FOW products only on this forum is not entirely unreasonable. It is not like there are not other forums to do so. Besides; comparisons regarding other companies' models have already been done in other places. (For which I am grateful; don't get me wrong.)

2. Personally I would rather discuss comparisons & ideas for tanks & other armor that are not yet in the game as future expansions. (For instance would you rather see a Panzer III or a Hetzer as the next expansion?) I think discussing how the game could be made better is possibly more helpful to all.

3. I am not sure that not allowing members to discuss other products on this forum will have a majorly adverse affect on the success of this game. (As previously stated; there are other places to do so.) Lack of support might.
Chris at Tanks HQ  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:09:04 AM(UTC)
Chris at Tanks HQ

Rank: HQ

Posts: 13

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Hi Rhet,

GF9 TANKS and Flames Of War tanks are the same thing so no problem at all showing or discussing those together, separately etc.

One of the reasons that the starter set comes with 1 of each of the basic Tank, Crew and Upgrade cards etc is to make it as easy as possible for players to buy 1 box and try out a variety of tanks and other options. Not planning on getting in a debate here but I am not sure how you could consider that a barrier to entry?

As for other comments/questions about how you can express your opinions about how good or bad a particular model is we actively encourage that. For those of you that have seen the progression of the Flames Of War plastics over the years you may (or may not) know that our first tentative steps resulted in models that were not as polished, easy to put together, or as detailed as the ones today. That comes from years of learning and customer feedback. If you have feedback on one of our models best thing to do is tell us. Generally speaking there are conscious design choices that we have made - for example reducing the number or spokes on a road wheel from what is historically accurate to what will paint up nicely. But we are happy to engage in the discussion because the feedback can help us to make improvements for the next model.

Reading through some of the comments I do feel there may be some confusion about one point - we are not suggesting you should not use your other models in your games. How you play your game, at your house or club etc is entirely up to you. Our desire is to keep our TANKS forum focused on our game and our models.

Last up, feedback on product delivery - sorry but specifics on that one is completely outside of my control and knowledge. Just like you I've seen the images of a massive restock being packed and prepared for shipping on our front page. I also know that there is another reprint going on but I cannot give you a "it will be in-store on this date". As for OP kits - OP2 has already been sent out. Distributors should have received theirs about 2 months ago (US and UK) and late last month (Australia) and stores that placed orders directly should also have theirs. OP3 kits have been sent / are being sent now as far as I am aware.


Chris
Conall  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:52:24 AM(UTC)
Conall

Rank: Commander

Posts: 50

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Chris at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post

Reading through some of the comments I do feel there may be some confusion about one point - we are not suggesting you should not use your other models in your games. How you play your game, at your house or club etc is entirely up to you. Our desire is to keep our TANKS forum focused on our game and our models.

Chris


Chris,

This is the nub of the problem. Firstly, I don't think anyone who has responded on this thread has suggested that you are saying we shouldn't use other models when playing - except in OP. That looks like a strawman argument to divert attention.

The main issue is your diktat not to discuss other manufacturer's tanks (& I assume, by extension, games) on this forum - see your bolded text above. This does seem highly problematic to me. Firstly, it precludes comparison - i.e. "the GF9 Panzer IV is bigger than xx's PIV" or "the GF9 Comet is more detailed but less fiddly to assemble than another company's plastic Comet". This seems an entirely reasonable conversation to have on this forum to me and, if you are confident in respect of the quality of your product, one that has the potential to benefit your sales.

Likewise, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say, "I want to play with a Tiger I E now, so I've made up a suitable card" - probably discussed on the forum here in respect of the stats - "and, for the time being, will play using a model from another company". The chances are that this particular individual will buy your Tiger I E when it comes out to a) get the cards & b) because he/she likes your products and wants to use that once it is available. By saying, "No! You cannot discuss a competitor's product because we don't yet have one" you risk alienating them to the point where they switch to playing something else (possibly a product where starter & OP sets are readily available, ahem).

Equally, when I discuss the pros and cons of Tanks, a game which delights and frustrates me in equal measure, I'd quite like to be able to make comparison to other similar games whether they model armoured warfare or something else. In doing so I am able to make better comparisons and give other readers on the forum a better idea of what I like and possibly don't like about Tanks. Who knows, as a result you might get some new customers. I'm not discussing other products in isolation but in direct comparison to yours, which is what a free market place is about: enabling fair and open competition and allowing informed buyers of your products.

I find your approach quite troubling and one which is more likely to make me want to disengage from Tanks. It also indicates a very controlling attitude to your intellectual property/product, which while perfectly valid does not suggest that you welcome third party input from your customers or their modifications. This seems to me a mistake as while you may very well protect the quality of your brand and possibly (although I would argue much less likely) your sales it does not bode well for the longevity of your game. The games, in my experience, which last longest are those where the manufacturers have actively embraced and enabled modifications and third party input (assuming their intellectual property rights are not breached and no-one else is commercially benefiting from their copyright).

Tom

Edited by user Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:53:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Conall for this useful post.
PilGrim on 10/5/2016(UTC)
Chris at Tanks HQ  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:27:33 AM(UTC)
Chris at Tanks HQ

Rank: HQ

Posts: 13

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Hi Tom,

anyone that knows me can tell you I am not smart enough or good enough at debating points to come up with a "strawman argument" - I had to google that term a year or so ago when we were discussing something in the office :)

Conall said......
"Likewise, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say, "I want to play with a Tiger I E now, so I've made up a suitable card" - probably discussed on the forum here in respect of the stats - "and, for the time being, will play using a model from another company"."

I don't think that is unreasonable in the slightest either. If the original (or subsequent post) suggested otherwise then that was not my intent.

Conall said......
"Equally, when I discuss the pros and cons of Tanks, a game which delights and frustrates me in equal measure, I'd quite like to be able to make comparison to other similar games whether they model armoured warfare or something else."

I don't think that is unreasonable in the slightest either.

I think a common sense approach has to be applied to any discussion, especially one on the internet where many of the subtleties of human conversation are lost due to the lack of visual or audio cues. We would not want to see negative comments about another companies product or game on our forums. However an approach such as "I like the way TANKS does X over other games" or a "I don't like rule Y and I think other games handle it better by doing such and such" would be appropriate.


Chris said......
"Our desire is to keep our TANKS forum focused on our game and our models."

My intent was to communicate our desire that conversation be focused on our models and our game. To my mind there is a difference between focused and other words (that I cannot think of right now) which would suggest a more exclusive approach.


Conall said......
"does not suggest that you welcome third party input from your customers or their modifications."
Chris said......
"This is not about trying to ban discussion of what tanks you would like to see added next, or even theorycrafting stats for the Maus, E-100 or any other tank."
and
"But we are happy to engage in the discussion because the feedback can help us to make improvements for the next model."

Please forgive me in advance if I am misunderstanding your comment or intent but isn't your statement a straw man argument?


Chris
CommodoreDecker  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:33:05 PM(UTC)
CommodoreDecker

Rank: Commander

Posts: 128

Thanks: 19 times
Was thanked: 12 time(s) in 11 post(s)
Chris wrote:


Last up, feedback on product delivery - sorry but specifics on that one is completely outside of my control and knowledge. Just like you I've seen the images of a massive restock being packed and prepared for shipping on our front page. I also know that there is another reprint going on but I cannot give you a "it will be in-store on this date". As for OP kits - OP2 has already been sent out. Distributors should have received theirs about 2 months ago (US and UK) and late last month (Australia) and stores that placed orders directly should also have theirs. OP3 kits have been sent / are being sent now as far as I am aware.


Chris


Well, we didn't get our OP2, and they ordered it. They order every solicited Tanks item and thus far, in the life of the game, have received a total of 3 expansion packs. That's it. I know you said it's not in your realm, and that's fine, but it doesn't matter anyway. They cancelled support for the league and gave the night away. I tried but it's over.
Whizzwang  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:44:01 PM(UTC)
Whizzwang

Rank: Gunner

Posts: 12

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
For the record, discussing other companies tanks actually got your more money from me - I am lucky enough to live in the UK where we have product so I got two starters. In order to try and get as many tanks as possible, as a savvy consumer I immediately googled 1/100 scale "Insert name of tank here" and discovered a particular russian brand at very low prices.

By asking here what they were like in comparison I was advised that they were in fact not worth buying. I am now the proud owner of several assorted FOW battalion boxes

TL:DR - product comparison is good for you
LordOfKhemri  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:47:36 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

Rank: Commander

Posts: 457

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 84 time(s) in 69 post(s)
I too have a few of that brand of tank.

They fulfill my need to have tanks that are not yet available (Very stripey cat, African/Indian, KayVee won and too), but I will gladly buy the GF9 versions if and when they appear.

In a way the availability of Tanks in the UK has only fueled my desire for more and like a toddler sometimes I simply can't wait.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Sohlon  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 10:16:25 PM(UTC)
Sohlon

Rank: Commander

Posts: 50

Thanks: 7 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hi all I'm relatively new to Tanks and have been somewhat swept up by this game. All the tanks I have are from the tanks range for two very simple reasons. 1) They come with cards and instructions. Being new to historical stuff all Sherman's look the same and the nuances of WW2 tank design are still and alien concept. A box that has instructions rules and pictures is exactly what I'm after.

2) I think the game is great and I want to support it.

Chris's request to keep photos to tanks range models is really positive. When I come to this website it's to be inspired and further my involvement with the game. When you get lots of 3rd party merchandise it muddies the water and makes it confusing for newbies like myself to work out what is or isn't part of the range.

If it helps think about it like this you wouldn't put pictures of 3rd party items in a physical store front so what makes putting them up on a virtual one ok?
LordOfKhemri  
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 10:26:34 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

Rank: Commander

Posts: 457

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 84 time(s) in 69 post(s)
In my case, and probably a lot of other players, we enjoy the game so much that our appetite for tanks of all kinds is greater than GF9's ability to keep up with the various demands. Obviously we are constrained by which models are in plastic for FOW.

Everyone has their favourite nation and/or tanks and so to satisfy our needs we go to other providers until GF9 produce their own models with cards.

I have lots of tanks/lorries/planes from another model producer and I enjoy having them. As soon as GF9 come up with the goods I will be buying them (again) to get the cards.

If you go onto the Facebook group you will see some splendid painting of models as yet unavailable which only serves to further encourage the whole tanks experience.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
AndyTerry  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:32:19 AM(UTC)
AndyTerry

Rank: Loader

Posts: 1

Hi

New to the Forum but been playing Tanks with my 11 year old for quite a while.
2 questions regarding this thread:-

1. I have a large number of FOW and other manufacturers tanks that I would like to use at an OPS event. e.g. 3 T34-85, 1 SU100 , 2 T34 76 and an IS 2.

I do not want to but 7 new vehicles just to play at the OPS Event. Mine and my sons budget doesn't stretch.

2. He received the FOW Tiger pack with the Tanks cards in it. Presumably, according to Chris he can't use those? Where does the line get drawn?

Cheers

Andy
Rhet Sark  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:46:27 AM(UTC)
Rhet Sark

Rank: Commander

Posts: 80

Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
If I recall, for official events, they would like one real card per tank on the table, and only real crew and equipment/upgrade cards. Since there is no difference between plastic Battlefront minis and GF9 minis (like the FOW plastic Tigers) they should be fine.

For anything else, try asking the tournament director if you can ahead of a tournament.

Somewhere above in this thread, it was mentioned that the starter was designed to have lots of cards, but only 3 tanks, so players could try out things with other models. but they would like to keep this forum as a place to discuss only the GF9 minis (from Battlefront Miniatures sprues, which happen to match the new sprues for recent FOW releases).
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Similar Topics
TANKS Miniatures and 3rd Party Models (Painting and Modeling)
by Chris at Tanks HQ 9/30/2016 2:57:33 PM(UTC)
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error