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ghalgor  
#1 Posted : Saturday, June 25, 2016 1:16:37 PM(UTC)
ghalgor

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Does a bailed out tank as contesting? We played it as no.

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Andrew at Tanks HQ  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 27, 2016 11:29:15 AM(UTC)
Andrew at Tanks HQ

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A tank that is not destroyed may hold or contest an objective no matter what damage cards they have assigned to them.
thanks 1 user thanked Andrew at Tanks HQ for this useful post.
WolfBenrath on 6/27/2016(UTC)
ghalgor  
#3 Posted : Monday, June 27, 2016 12:04:33 PM(UTC)
ghalgor

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Zerstorer  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 26, 2017 5:33:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrew at Tanks HQ Go to Quoted Post
A tank that is not destroyed may hold or contest an objective no matter what damage cards they have assigned to them.


Boy...there is one that I think needs a rewrite. It really stinks to see a bailed out tank winning a game by contesting an objective.....especially with multiple bailed out cards and crits stacked on it! Our group has a house rule against this and it just makes a lot more sense. Sure...stunned crew, shell shocked, etc....just fine seeing those crews contesting an objective. Bailed out....no. Those guys would more than likely be machine-gunned than posing any real threat.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 26, 2017 5:36:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LordOfKhemri  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:10:29 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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Bailed out needs to have an additional clause on the lines of (I am not a rules writer)
"Bailed Out negates all the modifiers and effects of the tank's crew upgrades"

For those who have read my previous posts, Radio Coordinator and Scout come to mind.
Defensive Driver - reroll one defence die. When you aren't driving because you are hiding in a ditch?

Some of the heroes/doctrines also affect defence dice or hit points. Fine when the crew person is IN the tank but when they aren't?
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Uthak  
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 27, 2017 8:01:09 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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I think this is hard to realize for two reasons.

1.) GF9 already printed, official cards; GF9 would need to basically "give out" new, original cards to anyone who has already purchased them in order to not have some nasty glued-on version downloadable that will make it easy to tell what card is going to be drawn next (bump on card). And not piss of the whole veteran player crowd by needing to re-purchase the same cards for slight changes.

PS & sorry for the many words: This is why I think its a terrible idea to have cards containing rules with actual miniatures... There need to and WILL be rewrites/rebalancing etc., this is just simply setting you up to fail and piss of your fans by reselling them the same thing with slight changes over and over. Take an example with the one thing Games Workshop did get right: have Rulebook & Codex's sold separately, making army planning easy and convenient, giving you historical background and painting tips etc., maybe strategy advice etc., etc. then, in time when enough about the game needs changing bring out a whole new book, add new content, keep what's good, delete what's bad, change where needed. No need to go back and purchase the 651's T34 to replace all your 20 tank-cards you already got for that tank... Not to forget, rebuy those 25 useless tanks, not even from you faction, just to get those much needed, updated upgrade cards ONLY in those expansions...

2.) If you take the ruling for Bailed Out literally it would become much more necessary to take other rules literally as well: For example Crew injured on a non-upgraded tank. You have zero repercussions from that card (if no crew-upgrades on board), even though you should still lose your basic crew... Also imagine the (African 29 point) Tiger 1 getting hit by Injured crew three times. He has only three crew members (in this game) but 7 hull points. He would take 6 damage points and would now technically be driving around without ANY crew (not even possible to get them back on board - they're all dead)...

I think its important to see the game mechanic as that, a game mechanic, not to be all the way literally. The important thing about the card is the rule: No Move, No Shoot! Maybe just rename the card "Unconscious Crew"?!
Zerstorer  
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 27, 2017 7:13:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Uthak Go to Quoted Post
I think this is hard to realize for two reasons.

1.) GF9 already printed, official cards; GF9 would need to basically "give out" new, original cards to anyone who has already purchased them in order to not have some nasty glued-on version downloadable that will make it easy to tell what card is going to be drawn next (bump on card). And not piss of the whole veteran player crowd by needing to re-purchase the same cards for slight changes.

PS & sorry for the many words: This is why I think its a terrible idea to have cards containing rules with actual miniatures... There need to and WILL be rewrites/rebalancing etc., this is just simply setting you up to fail and piss of your fans by reselling them the same thing with slight changes over and over. Take an example with the one thing Games Workshop did get right: have Rulebook & Codex's sold separately, making army planning easy and convenient, giving you historical background and painting tips etc., maybe strategy advice etc., etc. then, in time when enough about the game needs changing bring out a whole new book, add new content, keep what's good, delete what's bad, change where needed. No need to go back and purchase the 651's T34 to replace all your 20 tank-cards you already got for that tank... Not to forget, rebuy those 25 useless tanks, not even from you faction, just to get those much needed, updated upgrade cards ONLY in those expansions...

2.) If you take the ruling for Bailed Out literally it would become much more necessary to take other rules literally as well: For example Crew injured on a non-upgraded tank. You have zero repercussions from that card (if no crew-upgrades on board), even though you should still lose your basic crew... Also imagine the (African 29 point) Tiger 1 getting hit by Injured crew three times. He has only three crew members (in this game) but 7 hull points. He would take 6 damage points and would now technically be driving around without ANY crew (not even possible to get them back on board - they're all dead)...

I think its important to see the game mechanic as that, a game mechanic, not to be all the way literally. The important thing about the card is the rule: No Move, No Shoot! Maybe just rename the card "Unconscious Crew"?!


Nah, the change to bailed out is really simple. A bailed out tank can still be targeted, but it shouldn't be contesting any objectives. Simple FAQ point to be added. I also agree that bailed out crew should not get to use their special abilities. They are cowering and hidiing and they left their machine behind. Simple to deal with in an FAQ. Seeing a bailed out tank contest or, worse yet, control an objective is just ridiculous. The injured crew cards that don't hurt you if you have no special crew to lose doesn't bother me so much. The card didn't say crew killed, just injured. So, your super loader isn't so super when injured. He still loads the gun, but at a relatively normal rate. Your generic loader wasn't that great to begin with, so the injury card has less effect on you. Not too bad a mechanic. Crew killed cards would raise more issues!

Edited by user Thursday, April 27, 2017 7:15:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LordOfKhemri  
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 27, 2017 8:56:06 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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I wasn't suggesting that we stick updated notes on cards, we can have them in an FAQ.

As for Games Workshop...

Rules that can look like Swiss Cheese if you delve too deeply into the permutations that can occur.

Separate codexes that get replaced very regularly and, lo and behold, there are new models that are so uber that they are auto includes, and guess what, they cost a shedload of cash.
If you want to compete then you have to have the latest toys.

Oh and let's not forget shafting the people who accumulated large fantasy armies only to have them made obsolete by the abomination that is the A*e O* S*g**r. If only they provided a downgrade to my mental capabilities I might have felt like playing it.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Uthak  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 5:18:40 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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@ zerstoerer:

There is no doubt, I agree entirely that its silly on a logical level. what I'm tryin to say is not to justify the silliness of empty tanks rolling around doing stuff, but rather that developers wanted to implement a card that dead-stops your tank from moving AND shooting. Unfortunately they created "Bailed Out". If it weren't for this poor wording there wouldn't be an issue. ie "Unconscious Crew". Aside from that your point on injured crew makes sense, I always think of them as dead not injured.

- Yes, an errata could fix this, but it sucks imo to have a card that presents one of its rules and the other twelve (exaggerated) are to be found online in a faq.
- another thing this rule fixing would demand then would be: Bailed Out tank becomes immune to following results/effects of Shell Shocked, Bailed out, Stunned Crew, Injured Crew, Assassin (and maybe more I didn't think of right now). If they aren't in the tank, their special rules don't count and they cant hold or contest objectives. But also they cant get shot at any more and therefor become immune until re-boarding their tank (the only viable target for shooting).

I think this is way away from the simple rules the creators intended with that damage card.
// I mean right now a tank that takes enough damage to get destroyed by mines in his movement phase gets to still drive around, use his supercharger, shoot stuff and do all kind of fancy stuff before eventually dying from the mines. This game is not necessarily logical.

@ LordOfKhemri:

That's true, I never said you did, that's just how rule-fixes or updates in cardgames are often handled - at least around here (you would print out Errata, cut out the section and tape it into your rulebook). That, or reprints like with the Brittish Achilles (having coordinated fire). Id be happy for any and all issues to be better worded and fixed - if gf9 sends us new cards to go with it for free. I just don want to play a round against a friend who knows nothing about it and tell him about this card (and possibly many more): "oh yeah, and hey there is this special rule for that, and this further effect, and then happens all this, but you cant know this, because its only in the online FAQ that you couldn't possibly have heard of - sorry, but you not preparing for this impossible-to-know fact just cost you the game. tough luck bud."

As for Games Workshop...
I agree on everything you say!!! That's why I don't play their systems anymore. up to edition 5/early 6 it was fine. When flyers hit the table and ever more allowed Apocalypse and giant walkers entered the arena and then allowing Forge World in competitive play AND jacking miniature-prices by 100% in just 5 years, not to forget thes entirely stupid Allies-rules to put a Farseer in any army and built 100% unkillable deathstars left and right... So many bad decisions. nobody wanted to spend another $1000 just to become competitive again...

However until then, the concept of changing the the central rulebook every couple of years and bring out new codizes alongside makes total sense to me. You were always able to field your old stuff, just with upgraded rules. (until we got the clusterf**k of new OP, $100+ a model content destroying the game).

Generally adding new content this way is a good idea though (I think), GW just took the wrong turn. Their only defense: They, like any company, needs to sell product, and the game has been around like 28-30 years now, they need new stuff other than space marines and orks. sure. just not what they did by screwing all veterans by casting all old standard units into utter uselessness.
Necrogoat  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 5:49:22 PM(UTC)
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Look at (yeah I know) X-Wing: there are a few cards which have been changed in FAQ/Errata and it's ok. It's a living game and sometimes a few rules will change in case of going on and new combos that may be to strong or things that nobody has seen in playtesting and so on (best example at X-Wing in the momen: Emperor Palpatine - got a heavy change)
CmdrRook  
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 12:12:10 AM(UTC)
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The difference being that x wing is a flag ship product with all of the support that brings. Tanks is treated more as an afterthought.
Zerstorer  
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 7:41:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Go to Quoted Post
The difference being that x wing is a flag ship product with all of the support that brings. Tanks is treated more as an afterthought.


Sad, but it seems to be true. Tanks has been a lot of fun for me, but it's spotty availability early on really hurt. I managed to jump start it with my local gaming buddies by hunting down some base sets and giving them as gifts at Christmas. Slowly, others are gaining interest by watching our games at the FLGS and what really has helped there is my collection of nicely painted/decaled tanks, 3D terrain and my recently acquired 3' x 3' mat from Gripmat.

The GF9/Battlefront models really are the best in my collection. I have nice models from Zvezda and PSC, but particularly the new plastic Tanks/FOW kits are gorgeous!

Please GF9....please, please, please put out some generic 3 x 3 mats. No roads, buildings and terrain features printed on them. Just nice neoprene mats that look like desert, Northwest European fields, the Steppes, or a winter countryside. Put out separate sets of 2d printed templates to go with the maps and you will have a product that will appeal to Tanks gamers and a lot of other gamers as well.

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