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Uthak  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 17, 2017 6:36:45 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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Originally Posted by: Mjorr Go to Quoted Post
since radio coordinator is only actioned at the start of the applicable phase all effects are effective. This means that if multiple radio cords are in a squad then at the start of your shooting phase "ALL" the transferring actions need to be indicated eg tank with rc at initiative 8 has shooting turn nominates tank to transfer and if this tank has rc he nominates tank to receive initiative then first tank takes shooting actions followed by second and then third.
This I think is the way it operates correctly.



What are you basing this information on? How do you know that they transfer their initiative at the beginning of the phase, not at THEIR (that specific tanks) beginning of said phase - thus, at their initiative step?
I've previously discussed the exact activation time of Radio transfers and haven't yet received clear statement from HQ, but personally agree with CmdrRook that the activation should happen at their respective initiative value - NOT at the beginning of the phase regardless of their actual value.
From what I'm reading here I get that you think a Tank with Radio Coordinator and initiative 8 would still transfer his initiative 8 even when critically hit by a initiative 9 tank and suffering a "Shell Shocked" effect?!

If I interpret you right I must strongly disagree.
Mjorr  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:49:21 PM(UTC)
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my basis is that the initiative value determines the order of actions of movement and shooting therefore it is established at the beginning of that phase else you would end up with someone's initiative being raised later and missing out on the initiative advantage. so as initiative defines the order it must action at the start, its ok to lower it later as that effect can be fairly applied.
in the example the initiative is with the 9 not the 8 so radio coordinator would not be used practically, so a non issue all crits are effective - the understanding of radio coordinator is for higher comparative initiatives
Uthak  
#23 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 8:13:15 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding what you're trying to say. no offence intended. But what is your point? If all actions etc. are indeed handled strictly in initiative order, wouldn't that mean that tanks would transfer initiative (with their RC) AT their respective initiative and not at the beginning of the phase (effectively negating any chance to knock out a RC in that turn)?

I don't understand neither how you attempted to answered my example?
If (enemy) tank A (in9) strikes tank B (in8) with a RC and shell shocks B. Did B already transfer his ini 8 at the beginning of the phase or does he only transfer it when it in fact is his turn? Does he now drop to zero, lose his spot at ini8 and then even transfers his new temporary ini of zero (0) AT ini-step zero (0) to no effect, for all other friendly tanks have already shot - that is the question I've asked a couple of weeks ago, to no answer from HQ.

As we are playing it now it is strictly by initiative. therefor a shell shocked RC transmits initiative zero at step zero and effectively can ignore his RC that turn. The real downfall we noticed is if your build is depended to RC's transmitting cheap, but high init to powerful slow tanks (an ISU-152 shooting at basic initiative is just painful to watch after his RC-T34 got shocked/destroyed)...
Zeus  
#24 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:54:41 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
2.) Since I don't own the card I cant read the original rule-text, but does the brittish Calculating Driver read "At the start of the Movement Phase gain either +2 Initiative or -4 Initiative until the end of the phase."? And if so, what's the purpose? who would want to lower his initiative by -4 for no reward? Just to move first, and try to get your opponent to make a dumb return move? Cautious would be an interesting combo, but useless since at -4 initiative most enemy tanks likely will already have gotten shots off on you...


I don't own the card either (which set did it come in?), but if your assumed text is indeed right, then it seems the card just allows you some control over when in the movement phase you move. You could go later to see what the enemy is doing, or earlier to grab a piece of cover or move onto an objective. However, the effect only lasts until the end of the phase, so the order in the subsequent shooting phase is NOT affected.
Mjorr  
#25 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:22:22 PM(UTC)
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In your example the initiative had not been transferred by rc and so the tanks basic initiative value is dropped, making the use of rc not practical. however if the original 8 tank had received initiative from a higher tank he would have already transferred his (new) initative onwards and 9 initiative tank, having shot at the 8 (orig) the change in initiative has no effect on rc as it has already been utilised. rc's best usage with highest initiative
Uthak  
#26 Posted : Friday, May 19, 2017 6:16:39 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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@ Zeus: thanks my friend, but the question was already an old one and yes I was misreading the rule regarding the -4 ini lasting through the shooting phase. However I do understand the purpose of moving first in order to have my opponent make rash decisions, find it to be a rather poor upgrade though and have never seen it used effectively. But that just my opinion, and yes, I bet there is some folks out there who dominate the tables with that upgrade. was tryin to clarify if I understood the card correctly and its very limited applicability (again imo).

@ Mjorr: Again, not 100% sure if I understand the point you're making!? I take it that you mean that tanks indeed transfer their initiative at their respective ini-step rather than at the beginning of the phase? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're talking about two friendly tanks with RC giving initiative transfers in successive order, rather than just a single tank with RC in my example?! Is that what you're talking about? then yes, I agree, I too think that the highest ini tank (with RC) would transfer to the next tank (with RC) and this tank would then transfer the same, high value on to yet another tank (this goes on until you run out of RC-tanks). If I understood you correctly: yes I agree with that, but am waiting for an official statement from HQ to change it in my FAQ, since anything else/how we explain the rules to ourselves/our clubs is all but hear-say and wannabe-accurate interpretation.
By the way: Transfer of initiative is not optional, its mandatory (continuous effect). If your tank drops to zero, he NEEDS to transfer his new, bad initiative (though as we think it gets transferred AT zero, this has basically no effect) - this is not a question of practicality.

PS: For the first time we actually had this happen in a game where all tanks of one player had RC's. One eventually got shellshocked, but effectively we could ignore those effects we noticed. another, still higher initiative tank with RC would, pulled him right back up, and then this shell shocked tank (back at ini 8) got to transfer his old/re-gained initiative of 8 (rather to being stuck at zero). Very interesting combo indeed - not sure if worth the points just to become immune to shell shocks and quick turns though.
CmdrRook  
#27 Posted : Sunday, June 25, 2017 2:12:29 AM(UTC)
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Sharpshooter Gunner:
"When drawing Critical cards for the first uncancelled Critical Hit scored by this tank, draw one additional card. The attacking player chooses one of those Critical cards to discard."

You draw each CRIT instance individually, one at a time, not as a pool. Cards like these specifically state to draw more than one per CRIT being my reference.
CmdrRook  
#28 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:30:21 AM(UTC)
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Uthak  
#29 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:22:22 AM(UTC)
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thx for the feedback - jupp I too read that a while back. will change later today/soon, been caught up in mucho work!

Actually went to a different hobby store a lil whiles away because I heard they tanked there on Thursdays - was proud like a rabbit to see them using a printed version of this :). happy some people do actually care
Uthak  
#30 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:24:41 AM(UTC)
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update report 8/11/17:

5.1 - wording
5.2 - wording
5.5 - generalized
15.2 - added in point
16 - updated
17.1 - updated
thanks 1 user thanked Uthak for this useful post.
CmdrRook on 8/12/2017(UTC)
MiSiO  
#31 Posted : Friday, September 8, 2017 8:13:04 PM(UTC)
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Two questions:

1. Defensive Driver and Daring Driver. Same cost. Same ability but one has no restrictions the other do have. Where is the catch? Wrong points?

2. Defensive Driver and Toni Kruschinski - wording issue. Defensive driver allows to re-roll 1 defensive die per "defensive roll". Toni says You may re-roll a defensive die. One per turn? One per "save roll"?
MiSiO
Uthak  
#32 Posted : Saturday, September 9, 2017 4:57:12 AM(UTC)
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1.) I saw that, wondered about it and came to the conclusion that it must be a mistake.

The card makes no sense (given the alternative) unless your club plays with ONLY original cards and you happen to not have enough defensive drivers, but a spare daring driver...

It seems whomever wrote this card was unaware of the Defensive Driver card.



2.) That is one die per defending action. In literally all other cases (and there were a lot) the HQ ruling always has been unless stated: "once per turn"/"once per game" the intent is always: "every turn"/"of every action".

- there are several quotes in the 101 you can look up to get proof.
MiSiO  
#33 Posted : Monday, September 11, 2017 4:40:49 AM(UTC)
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a.d. 2 So this works the same way ad Defensive driver. 1 re-roll per attack against a tank. Tanks.
MiSiO
MiSiO  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:13:38 AM(UTC)
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Another question:

No Retreat (3) Add When attacking or defending, if there are no friendly tanks within Close Range of this tank, you may re-roll one of youre dice.

A: 1 attack OR 1 defence
B: 1 attack AND 1 defence?
MiSiO
Axeman  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, September 20, 2017 8:58:30 AM(UTC)
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Surely it must be 'A' otherwise you are re-rolling more than one dice.
CmdrRook  
#36 Posted : Wednesday, September 20, 2017 3:31:07 PM(UTC)
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Except that Defensive Driver specifies: "when defending, you may reroll one defense die." HQ has clarified that means every time it defends in a turn, it may make that reroll.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 20, 2017 3:31:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling.

MiSiO  
#37 Posted : Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:24:57 PM(UTC)
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Indeed Defensive is 1 re-roll per D-roll.
MiSiO
MiSiO  
#38 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:34:20 PM(UTC)
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Engine: Quick Turn (2)
After all tanks have moved you may discard this card to rotate your tank to face any direction. This tank's initiative is 0 Initiative until the end of the turn.

Q1. Quick turn is not considered a move. Right? Tank remains stationary and does not get speed tokens?

Q2. How You turn a tank? Around a middle (if it has a turret) or around any part of a body (around a track is doable in real life)?

If I may suggest something about Quick Turn - I understand that the main reason to have it is to turn against a tank on a flank outside of LOS (so mostly for TD). It will not be possible with a turn around a centre when an enemy is in physical contact with our tank (which is like always when in flank).

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:48:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

MiSiO
Uthak  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:24:05 AM(UTC)
Uthak

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I posted this very question in the errata months ago but haven't yet heard back from HQ. its weird, ive seen HQ sporadically respond to posts and questions again over the last months, but I guess none have ever checked this thread and all the subsequent unsolved issues posted here:

Personally we play it like so:

When making a quick turn your tank pivots around its center point (no other option). It no longer counts as stationary (in regards to re-rolls and upgrades), but also doesn't get a movement token.

however this is a clear house rule and in need of some HQ clarification.

PS:

Allowing turns around any part of the hull will 100% spawn all kinds of cheesy, abusive turn maneuvers to "swing" into cover, out of LOS, behind a friendlies or worse, into the flank of the flanking tank, which 100% is not the intent here.
Thus we say its ONLY allowed to pivot around its own center. when being flanked and some other vehicle is hull to hull you may relocate your tank so its now face to face with the flanking tank (without changing its position).

Remember that technically intact tanks are not impassable terrain, therefor you can pivot on the spot even when surrounded/pocketed by enemy tanks (very cheesy, and we don't play it like that, but we use this to explain those rare, odd cases of quick turns while being "rammed"

Edited by user Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:42:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Uthak for this useful post.
CmdrRook on 9/26/2017(UTC)
MiSiO  
#40 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 8:56:29 PM(UTC)
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1. Radio Coordinator - does the Radio Coordinator INI can be modified by "targeted" tank's cards or is it the new, final unmodifiable value?

2. Can "Bobby" Woll's second shot be modified? (+1 ATT from Otto, Bloodthirsty gunner etc.)?
MiSiO
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