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LordOfKhemri  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 8:31:25 AM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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Obviously we wait with bated breath, probably in the run up to Xmas?, for a Tiger tank.

In the meantime, has anyone set up their own to use until the "real" tanks card comes out?

I was thinking of I6, S6, D2,HP7, Heavy tank rule, Blitzkreig, 40 points
Not sure about Slow (1 move per movement phase)
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Carlson793  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 9:55:08 AM(UTC)
Carlson793

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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
Obviously we wait with bated breath, probably in the run up to Xmas?, for a Tiger tank.

In the meantime, has anyone set up their own to use until the "real" tanks card comes out?

I was thinking of I6, S6, D2,HP7, Heavy tank rule, Blitzkreig, 40 points
Not sure about Slow (1 move per movement phase)
Personally, I'm hoping the October release wave includes a German tank in the 20-30 point range. That'll give list-building options for 4-5 tanks without resorting to Panzer/StuG swarms.

As for Tigers, there have been a few posted on one of the Facebook pages (first three are revisions from the same designer)...

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage


...and for completeness, a Jagdtiger and Königstiger...

UserPostedImageUserPostedImage

Edited by user Friday, September 2, 2016 10:01:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LordOfKhemri  
#3 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 9:01:42 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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Thanks for that.

I'll stick with S6 though as it's an 88, same as Jagdpanther.

Earlier WW2 tanks would be good to have in time, that is if I don't spend all my cash on lots of other tanks :)
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Conall  
#4 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 9:10:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for that.

I'll stick with S6 though as it's an 88, same as Jagdpanther.

Earlier WW2 tanks would be good to have in time, that is if I don't spend all my cash on lots of other tanks :)


Nope, the Tiger I used the 88mm L56 Kwk36 whereas the Jagdpanther used the larger & higher velocity 88mm L71 KwK43, which was also used in the Tiger II

Tom
LordOfKhemri  
#5 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 9:27:02 PM(UTC)
LordOfKhemri

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I bow to your greater knowledge.

Can I have I6 though? Probably I5 but +1 for aura and reputation.
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ
Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please?
6 May 18 no
Conall  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2016 9:59:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Go to Quoted Post
I bow to your greater knowledge.

Can I have I6 though? Probably I5 but +1 for aura and reputation.


I don't see why not - it is your version after all! 😉

And you would have thought the Tiger I should have a high initiative: it had superb optics, excellent crew ergonomics & a good turret motor as well as an excellent gear box (assuming it got to the battlefield), all of which would have contributed to a high initiative. I don't know how it's calculated - in some respects it seems a bit like a balancing item. So I6 seems reasonable to me, you just need to adjust the point value accordingly (see threads on calculating points values).

Tom
Tiepilot1138  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 3:31:10 AM(UTC)
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Sorry to resurrect this, but which version does the community think is the most playable (or balanced)?
KampfgruppeAdler  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:00:37 AM(UTC)
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do not think the Tiger 1e stats are correct...sorry man...
Conall  
#9 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 7:50:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KampfgruppeAdler Go to Quoted Post
do not think the Tiger 1e stats are correct...sorry man...


And what do you think would be about right and why? Would be interesting to get your perspective.

Tom
hithero  
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:36:52 AM(UTC)
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Tiger 1 heavy tank gets my vote out of those.
Conall  
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:36:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hithero Go to Quoted Post
Tiger 1 heavy tank gets my vote out of those.


Which one? I'd personally vote for I6, S5, A2, D7 (although D6 would be equally valid), Heavy, Blitzkrieg but wouldn't complain about I5, S5, A2, D6, Heavy, Blitzkrieg either which would make for rather less of an uber tank (disappointing for the Tiger lovers, I know) but probably historically in the right ballpark.

Tom
KampfgruppeAdler  
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 3:56:06 PM(UTC)
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well... compared to the Panther...it is too expensive at 40 pts....for 8 more points...I loose 2 initiative , gain 1 damage and "Heavy"...that just does not sound right...

the Russians going from a T34/85 to a IS85...for 8 points you loose 1 initiative and "Fast"...gain +1 attack and +3 damage and "Heavy"...

going from SU85 to SU100...for 8 pts. you loose fast...gain +2 initiative , +1 attack , +2 armor and +2 damage...

it does not compute to me...
hithero  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:29:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Conall Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hithero Go to Quoted Post
Tiger 1 heavy tank gets my vote out of those.


Which one? I'd personally vote for I6, S5, A2, D7 (although D6 would be equally valid), Heavy, Blitzkrieg but wouldn't complain about I5, S5, A2, D6, Heavy, Blitzkrieg either which would make for rather less of an uber tank (disappointing for the Tiger lovers, I know) but probably historically in the right ballpark.

Tom


The one titled Tiger 1 heavy tank.
hithero  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:31:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KampfgruppeAdler Go to Quoted Post
well... compared to the Panther...it is too expensive at 40 pts....for 8 more points...I loose 2 initiative , gain 1 damage and "Heavy"...that just does not sound right...

the Russians going from a T34/85 to a IS85...for 8 points you loose 1 initiative and "Fast"...gain +1 attack and +3 damage and "Heavy"...

going from SU85 to SU100...for 8 pts. you loose fast...gain +2 initiative , +1 attack , +2 armor and +2 damage...

it does not compute to me...


Yeah, should be 36/37pts.
Conall  
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:26:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hithero Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KampfgruppeAdler Go to Quoted Post
well... compared to the Panther...it is too expensive at 40 pts....for 8 more points...I loose 2 initiative , gain 1 damage and "Heavy"...that just does not sound right...

the Russians going from a T34/85 to a IS85...for 8 points you loose 1 initiative and "Fast"...gain +1 attack and +3 damage and "Heavy"...

going from SU85 to SU100...for 8 pts. you loose fast...gain +2 initiative , +1 attack , +2 armor and +2 damage...

it does not compute to me...


Yeah, should be 36/37pts.


Have you looked at the ‘Cracking the Code’ thread on the Tank Forces part of the forum? It’s quite instructive in respect to your comments. This is the salient section.

Quote:
Gentlemen,
In here and in facebook group there are numerous attemps to houserule tanks that have FoW (and others) models, but lack the official cards. I've also seen someone's post about trying to figure out the points system, but failing. So I decided to have a crack at it myself. Below are the results:
All points modifications take a basic tank of each force as a starting point (M4 in US, Panzer IV in Germany, etc).
1 Initiative - 1 Point (though in case of dropping Ini, no points seem to be deducted from final cost);
1 Attack - 5 Points;
1 Defence - 7 Points;
1 Damage - 1 Point;

Fast - 5 Points;
Big Gun - 5 Points (not enough proof);
Heavy - 8 Points (again, not sure);
Assault Gun - deduct 2 points (unclear);

How did I get these numbers? Starting with 'murricah (F**k Yeah!!!).

M4 as basic with stats: 6 4 1 6 20 Pts.

Step up is M4 (76): 6 5 1 6 25 Pts.

Hence 1 Attack costs 5 pts. And so it goes. Admittedly system does not fully work (usually by an odd point) in some cases (especially with Soviets), but it's pretty close.


So on this basis a Tiger I E with I5, S5, A2, D7 Blitzkrieg, Heavy would be worth 20 +5(S), +7(A), +1(D), +8(H) = 41pts as would be the I6, S5, A2, D7 Blitzkrieg, Heavy variant. The intangible is, of course, how much for Blitzkrieg and Heavy (+8 for the latter seems quite a lot) but it does suggest that ~40 points is about right and your suggestion of 36/37 points maybe be marginally too cheap. Personally, I would suggest somewhere about 38 points looks about right to me.

It also, as you suggest, exposes some of the variations in the system and highlights the degree to which the Russian vehicles are very good value (for example the Comet at 29 points and the T-34/85 at 25 points are almost identical in capabilities but once you factor in the national characteristic, special ammo, and hero cards the Russian vehicle is much better value). And with Gung Ho and their ratings generally, I think the US vehicles are overpowered but at least they are not as cheap as the Russians.

Finally one advantage the Tiger I E will provide – and justifying the relatively high cost – is that it will give the Germans a good antidote to lists with fast, high initiative tanks to which the Jagdpanther and the Panther are relatively vulnerable. By having a heavy tank (and not an assault gun) the Germans will cease to be as vulnerable to being flanked at close range as they currently are now.

Tom


KampfgruppeAdler  
#16 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2016 1:26:07 PM(UTC)
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well....I am looking at the Germans after about 40 games...and they are just lacking as far as a platoon build goes...maybe it is the fact that they do not have a 25ish pt. 5 attack tank...the Panther is the problem to the overall platoon...

compare a "The Best Medium tank of the war" / the Panther...filling a slot in a platoon...to the SU100 filling a slot in a platoon...in a platoon environment initiative is not that big a deal and easily overcome...so lets drop initiative...so in a Russian platoon world (with coordinated fire) a SU100 is paying 6 LESS points to get +2 attack dice...even with having to bump up the initiative of a SU100 to 7 (a T34/85 in your Russian platoon w/cunning driver and radio - costing 4 more points)...in effect the SU100 gets +2 attack dice over a Panther for 2 points less...hmmmmm...so the Panther is just plain lacking in a German platoon...maybe the Panther aces like Barkmann and Dr Bake should have been giving the Panther better attack.

the next German tank to come out will I hope help a German platoon...what will it be...IMO if GF9 does not release a TigerI they will piss off a lot of people...so if a Tiger is released next it will have to be VERY cost effective...I fear that if a (VERY cost effective) TigerI is next...it will obsolete the panther in a German platoon...but German platoons will be better for it...

Edited by user Friday, September 30, 2016 1:50:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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