Tanks
»
Tanks
»
General Discussion
»
Hetzer Tank destroyer idea
Rank: Loader
Posts: 5
Thanks: 2 times
|
The Hetzer beta idea introduction into TANKS
I have been looking at this tank for a while now and have been trying to pinpoint Some ideas for the tank hunter. Well, I did have an idea for the Hetzer. Here are some characteristics of the hetzer for your own need, if you want.
Armor- 20mm to 60mm (sloped parts made it equivalent to 95mm to 120mm)
Speed- 26.1 mph
Gun- 75mm Pak 39
Crew- Highly Trained, most Hetzer crews were more disciplined and were in training camps longer then most other crews shuch as the StuG or the Panzer IV, crew total of 4
Hull- Welded onto the chassis with the main armor in one piece
So my ideas for stats, if the tank was put into TANKS, would be-
6 initiative
4 attack
1 armor
6 hull points
3 crew slots
Hull Gun
Cautious (still thinking about adding this one or not)
Total points would be 20
This is just one idea I had for tanks and i have much more but this is the only one that I have put my entire thought into so far.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 309
Thanks: 40 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 38 post(s)
|
We discussed Hetzer ideas a lot in this thread: http://tanks.gf9games.co...89&g=posts&t=305I think the Hetzer is best at 3-4-1-4, 13 points....but needs to have access to a special ambush rule....something that boosts initiative while stationary and in Cover. Perhaps +4 to initiative, but the ambush card being a discard. Cautious might work, but doesn’t seem to fit the Hetzer’s role or mobility issues from poor crew ergonomics. The Hetzer was an excellent ambush vehicle but with horrible cramped crew quarters and a blind spot on its left side. For the bad ergonomics, I would probably only give it two upgradeable crew slots. It is a Panzer 38t chassis, so I can’t see giving it 6 hit points. Armor 1 covers its improved sloped armor well. I would rate a basic Panzer 38t as armor 0. At 13 pts, you could field 7 of these and have 9 pts to spare for upgrades. If the doctrine card were 1 or 2 points (I suspect 2 points is about right), then you could have a pretty awesome ambush force. Two Hetzers out of 7 could have a superior commander and ambush for 8 points....and 1 could add tungsten shot. Or, you could use something like hasty loader instead of superior commander. Those Hetzers would be initiative 7 in ambush. Pretty fair against standard Sherman tanks. Edited by user Wednesday, January 3, 2018 6:09:36 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
 3 users thanked Zerstorer for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Gunner
Posts: 17
Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
I agree with the 3-4-1-4. 6 initiative is way too high along with the 6 hull points.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Loader
Posts: 5
Thanks: 2 times
|
Originally Posted by: Zerstorer  We discussed Hetzer ideas a lot in this thread: http://tanks.gf9games.co...89&g=posts&t=305I think the Hetzer is best at 3-4-1-4, 13 points....but needs to have access to a special ambush rule....something that boosts initiative while stationary and in Cover. Perhaps +4 to initiative, but the ambush card being a discard. Cautious might work, but doesn’t seem to fit the Hetzer’s role or mobility issues from poor crew ergonomics. The Hetzer was an excellent ambush vehicle but with horrible cramped crew quarters and a blind spot on its left side. For the bad ergonomics, I would probably only give it two upgradeable crew slots. It is a Panzer 38t chassis, so I can’t see giving it 6 hit points. Armor 1 covers its improved sloped armor well. I would rate a basic Panzer 38t as armor 0. At 13 pts, you could field 7 of these and have 9 pts to spare for upgrades. If the doctrine card were 1 or 2 points (I suspect 2 points is about right), then you could have a pretty awesome ambush force. Two Hetzers out of 7 could have a superior commander and ambush for 8 points....and 1 could add tungsten shot. Or, you could use something like hasty loader instead of superior commander. Those Hetzers would be initiative 7 in ambush. Pretty fair against standard Sherman tanks. Thank you for your idea, but what I'm trying to do with the Hetzer is to have a new option that is better then the stuG but not as costly compared to the Jagpanther. I do agree with the 2 crew upgrade slots and having a special rule with he ambushing tactics but the only thing I have a problem with is the low ini and the HP. I may lower the HP down to 5 with the hull having a more balanced stat to the game but in terms of ini to me it wouldn't be three in my eyes. I have always seen ini to represent how trained, fast, and skilled the crew was in the tank. But I can also see how it may represent how fast the internals in the tank, such as fire rate. So as I tinker around with the stats more and more I would not have the ini go below 4. But again thanks for the ideas!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 309
Thanks: 40 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 38 post(s)
|
Initiative 3 is more than generous. The Hetzer’s mobility is no better than the Stug. It has a super structure mounted gun. The commander doesn’t have all around view when buttoned up and the crew is literally blind to one side. The vehicle was primarily issued to tank destroyer units of infantry divisions, so I doubt training was better than that given to actual Panzer division personnel. The Hetzer is great for ambush, but a liability in a mobile battle. Initiative 3 seems about right.
Hetzer armor is about 60mm to the front, but it’s side armor is vulnerable to light weapons (20mm thickness). Armor 1 seems fine, as does 4 hit points. Perhaps giving the vehicle the recon keyword might be good, as that improves its armor rating when stationary in cover (the Hetzer being a small hard to see target when concealed)? I would probably say the Hetzer loses recon during a turn after it fires.....otherwise the stationary Hetzer becomes a little too well protected. We want it to get shots off in ambush mode, but not becoming a Jagdpanther or mini-Tiger.
When a Churchill is 7 hit points, and a British Sherman is 4, then a Hetzer with 4 hit points seems about right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 257
Thanks: 44 times
Was thanked: 52 time(s) in 40 post(s)
|
Recon does not require, or even mention, stationary. "This tank receives +1 Armor while in Cover."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 309
Thanks: 40 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 38 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Recon does not require, or even mention, stationary. "This tank receives +1 Armor while in Cover." Then recon is not a good fit...perhaps a new keyword.....maybe “stealthy?” ....can’t see giving a Hetzer in motion a benefit to its armor rating. Edited by user Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:48:02 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 138
Thanks: 48 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 19 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: Phoenix77 <snip>
Thank you for your idea, but what I'm trying to do with the Hetzer is to have a new option that is better then the stuG but not as costly compared to the Jagpanther. I do agree with the 2 crew upgrade slots and having a special rule with he ambushing tactics but the only thing I have a problem with is the low ini and the HP. I may lower the HP down to 5 with the hull having a more balanced stat to the game but in terms of ini to me it wouldn't be three in my eyes. I have always seen ini to represent how trained, fast, and skilled the crew was in the tank. But I can also see how it may represent how fast the internals in the tank, such as fire rate. So as I tinker around with the stats more and more I would not have the ini go below 4. But again thanks for the ideas!
Not an issue my friend. Vehicle like that already exists. In two versions nonetheless. JagdPanzer IV/48 and IV/70. If my memory serves well common consensus was 4-4-2-5 for the first one and something like 3-5-2-5 for second with both having Assault Gun and Blitzkrieg. Costed at circa 20 and 27 respectively, though I might be off a point or two. I know that Hetzer's gonna Hetz, but for its crews reality was not all cream and peaches... And while we're on the subject of crews, when JPanz 38 was introduced high rate of attrition ment that training quality was rapidly decreasing. Originally Posted by: Zerstorer Originally Posted by: CmdrRook Recon does not require, or even mention, stationary. "This tank receives +1 Armor while in Cover." Then recon is not a good fit...perhaps a new keyword.....maybe “stealthy?” ....can’t see giving a Hetzer in motion a benefit to its armor rating. I had a similar problem with my Home-made JagdTiger and I came up with something like this: Weak Sides - This vehice subtracts two dice instead of one when being a target of a Side Shot. That could warrant giving Hetzer Def 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Commander
Posts: 309
Thanks: 40 times
Was thanked: 47 time(s) in 38 post(s)
|
I think 3-4-1-4, assault gun, blitzkrieg, stealthy Stealthy- +1 armor if stationary and has not yet shot during the turn is a good way to model the Hetzer in Tanks. Not sure how much stealthy is worth, but I would go with 3 pts. So a Hetzer would cost 16 pts. Throw in the previously discussed ambush doctrine card for 2 pts and a superior commander for 2 more and you have a 20 pt tank with initiative 7 and the ability to survive and dish out hurt when stationary. I will try to playtest this soon. Edited by user Friday, January 5, 2018 9:19:11 AM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Gunner
Posts: 28
Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 7 post(s)
|
Bump above the spam. Same words as in the last post - guys, do your job! |
"This is the way Anzio fight!"
―Anchovy |
|
|
|
|
|
Tanks
»
Tanks
»
General Discussion
»
Hetzer Tank destroyer idea
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.