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So, in answering a question for another board member, I've come across an issue that GF9 needs to address... Nothing in the rules prevents active tanks from ending their Movement on top of other active tanks.This leads to a second issue... With the exception of Assault Guns, nothing in the rules prevents a tank in such a stack from shooting another tank directly above or below it in that stack (though the "any other tank" clause of the Line of Sight rule makes below arguable).Can anyone give a page reference/ruling link that disputes this?
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Rank: Commander
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Do you really need a rule to stop you parking one tank on top of another?
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Just picked my jaw up. Words fail me. |
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please? 6 May 18 no
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Feuer Frei !!! |
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Originally Posted by: hithero Do you really need a rule to stop you parking one tank on top of another? In casual play, no, you don't. But in a game with a tournament scene, that which is not prohibited by the rules as written is allowed. Best to get an official ruling/errata on this from GF9 before folks paint jobs get messed up.
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I thought I had read somewhere that tanks cannot end their turn touching another tank. I did go back and look at the rules and could not find it. However; it does seem like common sense. Course the problem with common sense is it is not always so common and sure enough someone will decide to give it a try.
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Same story with moving over tanks.
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MiSiO |
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Moving over/through non-destroyed tanks - they are deemed to be in a state of flux, ie moving around in an abstract way. All arcade game movement really. |
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please? 6 May 18 no
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Sure but sometimes there is no space to make a imaginary "around" route. 1 move can move a tank around a tank. Like jumping. I is legal, right? |
MiSiO |
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So long as a tank is active (i.e. not destroyed), you can move over/through it. The idea is that even though tanks are moved in initiative order, they are actually moving simultaneously*, so it's unlikely they would occupy the same space at the same time.
(*Yes, even stationary tanks...)
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Joining in the "silly season" of unusual things...
On my way home as I was stuck in a traffic jam, thank you York Ring Road, I realised two more things, one similar to the tank stacking.
1. There is nowhere in the rules that says you cannot lay your tank on one side, only that it has to be square to the arrow. so you could move forward and then tip the tank on one side with its track touching the arrow., thus reducing the front aspect to any potential attackers and giving you a better chance of hiding it with other tanks.
Silly?, most definitely, as ridiculous as tank stacking? most certainly, disallowed in the rules? no. As a quick test just now, 4 T34/85s are easily stackable if they have the flat cupola. Stug G, Comet,Cromwell and ISU152 are splendid side dwellers.
2. There is no requirement for a player, when shooting with a tank, to target the ENEMY player's tanks. Consider, two buildings as near as they can be to each other,. As a Brit I drive 2 sherman V (4 hit points) in between the houses, making sure there isn't a gap wide enough for a tank to drive through. I have 2 stationary Fireflies behind them and close range. It's quite acceptable, rules wise, to shoot the shermans with the Fireflies as the higher init tank only has to "pick a target". The Shermans are destroyed and so block the way between the buildings, forcing my opponent to have a much longer drive round to get to me.
In this case, the attacker and defender player is one and the same.
As I have stated before, one would hope that if anyone in a tournament tried the stacking or lay on the side that they would be immediately ejected for unsportsmanlike play (or just for being a t**t) and forfeit their entry fee. |
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please? 6 May 18 no
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1 user thanked LordOfKhemri for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri As I have stated before, one would hope that if anyone in a tournament tried the stacking or lay on the side that they would be immediately ejected for unsportsmanlike play (or just for being a t**t) and forfeit their entry fee. That's part of why I brought this subject up. The problem with a simple system like Tanks is that sometimes it's too simple, which allows massive exploits of the gaps and omissions in the rules. These gaps need to be closed up, if not during development, as soon after release as possible. Mind you, as long as they play by the rules in place for the tournament, there's nothing to be done except fix the rules to prevent abuse. It's part of the reason, in the Warhammer 40K tournament scene, the ITC has gotten so big: it's created rulings applicable to all players involved that address glaring conflicts in the rules as written.
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Stacking - it is weird - Imagine this! You move a fast tank to finish it's move in top of another tank THEN You activate a tank underneath and moves another X moves. This way You can get a moving-stationary tank using other tank as a free ride :)
Shooting Your own tank - sure You can.
Moving through - I accept this explanation - simultaneous movement follows the idea of a destroyed tank shooting. |
MiSiO |
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...and I'd just assembled my IS2s and ISUs with the machine gun on top as well.
Can't see myself stacking somehow or I'd have to ban myself from playing :) |
2 Dec 16, me to BF CustServ Is there any news on my replacement replacement cards for the Achilles please? 6 May 18 no
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Originally Posted by: LordOfKhemri Can't see myself stacking somehow or I'd have to ban myself from playing :) Nor myself. But this is a rules hole that is significant enough that it needs to be plugged, as well as the leaning tanks and friendly fire points you raised.
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There are countless situation that a games ruleset will simply not cover, these tend to fall under the heading of Common Sense. Things like stacking tanks follow this sort of school of thought. The augment that the rulebook does not prevent this does not hold up, as a rulebook cannot and should not cover all the odd ideas players can come up with, no matter how big the rulebook gets. A good rule of thumb for any game is if it feels like you are stretching the rules and the rules do not cover it at all, don't do it. So, back to the original questions can a tank end its movement on another tank? to get the answer we just need to look at a real tank and apply common sense. Can a real tank drive on top of another? No, so no you cannot do it in TANKS either. Edited by user Wednesday, November 9, 2016 8:53:33 AM(UTC)
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2 users thanked Andrew at Tanks HQ for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: Andrew at Tanks HQ There are countless situation that a games ruleset will simply not cover, these tend to fall under the heading of Common Sense. Things like stacking tanks follow this sort of school of thought.
The augment that the rulebook does not prevent this does not hold up, as a rulebook cannot and should not cover all the odd ideas players can come up with, no matter how big the rulebook gets.. Quite right. I've read dozens of rule books and none of them have had to go to the extreme of listing things the players cannot do. I do see the original poster's point that someone in tournament play may try something weird like that. My response would be to finish the game then shame him publicly as much as possible :-)
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I'd be interested in meeting the T.O. who would theoretically allow this.
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Since we are straying from the rule question into a more open discussion realm I am going to lock this topic. Edited by user Wednesday, November 9, 2016 2:31:46 PM(UTC)
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